Flu shots.

[rivka]

Normally, I get my flu shot at work. They're eager to vaccinate us because our immunocompromised patients would otherwise be at high risk of catching the flu from an infected employee.

I asked a couple of the nurse practitioners whether we were getting flu shots this year. One of them told me that the patient clinics haven't received any flu vaccine yet. Apparently, there's been some discussion about rationing within the patient population - saving the vaccine for patients with lower CD4+ cell counts.

So I called my primary care provider. They don't have the vaccine, and they're not expecting to get any in. The nurse advised me to call the health department. So I checked the health department website, and discovered that they don't have any vaccine and aren't expecting to get any in. They recommend calling your primary care provider.

I knew my midwife's office wouldn't have the vaccine, but I called to ask if they knew where I could get it. Nope.

Employee Health at the hospital doesn't have it, and won't be getting the injectible vaccine. They might be getting a few doses of FluMist, the intranasal vaccine, which pregnant women can't take.

I knew there was a shortage, but I had no idea it was this bad.

If it were just me, or just me and the Li'l Critter, I'd be willing to take my chances. I mean, if I were to get the flu, the danger to the baby would be either from (1) fever, which can be safely controlled with Tylenol during pregnancy, or (2) dehydration, which can be treated with an IV. The flu wouldn't kill me, and it wouldn't kill the baby.

But if I got the flu, it might kill one of my patients. I'm not being hyperbolic. I have patients whose ability to mount an immune response is damn near zero.

Meanwhile, in childfree, a healthy college student is bragging about managing to arrange a flu shot for herself. I quote: "I'm feeling good about it, because I keep telling myself I'm taking one away from some little brat who really doesn't need one."

Comments

[geminigirl]

Sick people....that's just wrong.

In theory I'm supposed to get one because of the asthma and I'm leaning towards skipping it cause there are people who need it more than I do.

I don't care if you're a childhater, (okay, I do but that's another story) but finding glee in someone else who needs that flu shot more than you do is just wrong. And Karma bites. Hard.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

*shudder*

This is why I specify that I am childless but not childfree.

You just watch...in 50 years, this person will be demanding their flu shot because they are at higher risk becaus they are older.

Living in a dorm does not confer a significantly higher risk.

Twit.

[pnh.livejournal.com]

Wow, that was a repulsive post and batch of comments over on "childfree." Is this a real subculture I've missed the existence of? Eeeyuck.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

You. Have. No. Idea.

Clearly you have yet to be introduced to such charming phrases as crotchfruit.

And only gets worse from there.

[jenett]

Yuck on the comments.

I need to talk to my doctor about it - I normally get one because between the lung scarring and asthma (even if not normally that bad) and the interaction with kids (many of whom have younger siblings: lots of stuff gets passed around), it seems sensible.

On the other hand, if I'm *not* getting a flu shot (and with the shortages the way they are, I don't think I will be, unless my doctor has a very different view of my overall health than I think she does...) I want to know for certain what symptoms need particular attention, and if I'm a good candidate for some of 'make symptoms easier/make it milder' stuff.

But that's just being a mature adult, y'know? There are people out there who need it lots more than I do.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Is there any way of estimating the risk an immuno-compromised person experiences by going around in day-to-day stuff within a population that's not been immunized against the flu, versus a population that has (mostly) been? I figure it has to be higher, but I'm not sure how to estimate how much higher.

I appreciate that you definitely do not want to be the vector by which the disease is transmitted, and I hope you can get a shot to prevent that. I'm just wondering how many other potential vectors your patients will also be interacting with.

[perigee.livejournal.com]

Wow, I hope that healthy college student grows up and learns to be polite.

[therealjae.livejournal.com]

To me that sounds like pointing at nasty heterophobes and saying: "They're the reasons I specify that I'm homosexual but not gay."

'Childfree' means 'someone who's made a conscious decision not to have children'. That's all. It's a useful word, and letting a few idiots poison it for the rest of us is just dumb.

-J

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

I just joined childfree, so I could vent. It isn't so much the boasting of getting one, or the pointless fear (young, healthy, aware... low risk of the flu, and less risk of complication), as the tone, and then the tenor of her defense.

So, I said...

As opposed to healthy adults, with immune systems fully developed, and who are aware enough to such precautions as basic hygiene and want it to avoid inconvenience?

Lets accept, arguendo, that you're not going to a clinic to take it away from someone who has a compromised immune system, your response... about little brats, and your explation, that your doctor has an eldery/sick client base don't really mesh... because that's one of your doctors patients who isn't getting it. One of those older people, or people with cancer; who might be weakened from chemo.

If you want to be selfish, go ahead, but don't lie to yourself about what you're doing.

I doubt I'm gonna get much love.


TK

[flyfreeizzie.livejournal.com]

We were talking about the flu vaccine shortage in my preventative health issues class. We had a dr in occupational health talking about how bad it is in some areas... such as Santa Barb and many healthcare workers are not able to get the vaccine... the potential consequence of that for the health care workers and the people they interact with.

I need to get the flu shot according to my doctor becuase 1: i live on campus 2: my immune system is not great being on immunosuprresants and having a autoimmunne disease but I wonder how much protection it actually provides. I got it last year because student health here does a pretty good job of actually holding back some of the vaccines for people with special circumstances and even make you get approval from one of the head doctors there before they will give it to you in order to make sure that at least the most at risk people get it. and so that people like this little college girl you mentioned wont be likely to get one at the sacrifice of someone who really needs it.

Anyways, I hope that the clinic your in will somehow be able to help you out being pregnant and at risk, etc.. cant be on meds and so on...

Iz

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

I can appreciate the conscious decision not to bring a child into the world, but bragging that one is denying a needed resource to another person who is the result of a differing philosophy is hateful and stupid.

Sadly, I cannot say that the story you relate above is a one-off; many of the folks I've encountered who label themselves "childfree" behave in aggressively anti-child ways, almost at the level of homophobic behavior towards gays (excepting physical violennce).

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

Herm. I was about to say something about how "next you'll be telling me how 'feminist' doesn't equal 'man hater'!, but then I thought about this and that, and...

Well, you know... it's a damn shame that words are so flipping limited.

Feminist, Christian, childfree... all labels that embody a huge number of ideas, that really say very little about a person's specific beliefs (even though they might say a great deal about a person's identity).

If we spoke in hypertext, with links to specific meanings for any ambiguous words, things would be a lot easier.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

(excepting physical violennce).


That may be because, unlike violence towards gays (at least until recently), the authorities are all over violence to children (at least by people not their parents) and you *will* go to jail.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

many of the folks I've encountered who label themselves "childfree" behave in aggressively anti-child ways,

I find that that's true of large parts of the organized childfree movement as I've seen it online, but it doesn't describe the actual childfree people that I know personally.

I have a lot of committedly childfree friends - most notably, therealjae - and I wouldn't want to put them in the same category as the people who populate childfree.

It's cold out there

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

My son has asthma and I was hospitalized with pneumonia this spring. I called his pediatrician to see if either of us was high-enough risk to get vaccine. She said grimly that there were only enough doses for 1/3 of the high-risk cases, and that we should go to the flu clinic our health center has and wait -- they'll be doing triage on the spot to determine who gets the vaccinations. We might get lucky, we might not.

Here's hoping that this is a very, very mild flu season, and I hope you can find the vaccine. I'm shocked but not surprised that your hospital can't get it at all.

[ckd]

I suspect a perceptual bias; the folks who are self-labeling as "childfree" sufficiently vehemently to come to rmjwell's attention are the ones whose behavior is more egregious. The quiet ones you don't notice, and they don't have it so tied in to their self-image as to need to act out, either.

Compare to proselytizers vs. the quietly religious and similar situations; same dynamic, just the details change.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I doubt I'm gonna get much love.

Aw, Terry, you know you'll always get love from me.

The thing that struck me is how precisely she's projected her own attitude onto others. She justifies her choice with this whole routine about how awful it is that parents will try to get their children vaccinated even though the kids aren't really at elevated risk, and even though it means depriving the elderly and sick.

It's so nice of her to worry about the tiny speck in the eyes of these imagined parents, when she's got that great big beam in her own. Selfless, really.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

finding glee in someone else who needs that flu shot more than you do is just wrong.

Well, children over the age of two aren't considered high-risk (http://www.ci.baltimore.md.us/government/health/flu.html") unless they've got a chronic illness. So they're in the same category that she is.

If I were you, I'd let your doctor or the public health authorities decide whether you ought to be vaccinated or not. Your asthma is no joke, and with job hunting and so forth you're going to have a lot of public contact this flu season.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

Do you point this out to the idiots?

It means nothing coming from me - who does not identify as 'childfree.'

It would mean something from you.

[therealjae.livejournal.com]

If by "this" you're asking whether I point out that they're being idiots, then yes, I used to, when I used to frequent childfree forums. I don't stop by forums I'm not a part of to tell people that they're idiots, though, whether childfree-related or otherwise. If I started doing that, I'd never stop.

That's venturing pretty far afield from my point, though, which was that it makes no sense to blame the word for a small percentage of people who use it who happen to be idiots. There's a kernel of truth to every stereotype, but overgeneralization doesn't help anybody. I have known many, many lovely people who refer to themselves as childfree, many more than the idiots who draw all of the attention. I cringe when I hear people tar all gay people with the brush of the heterophobes, all poly people with the brush of the flaky and commitment-phobic, and yes, all childfree people with the brush of the misanthropic.

-J

[therealjae.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't want to put them in the same category as the people who populate childfree

Well, *yeah*. This is livejournal, after all. I mean, would you want to assume that the majority of poly people are like the loudest folks who hang out in polyamory? ;-)

-J

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

Good on ye, then!

Changing stereotypes starts from within. If you are willing to call BS on those within your community who use that word in a hateful manner, than you are making a difference.

It is the passive acceptance of hateful use of that word which leads to the assumption that all people who are childfree fit that horrid stereotype.

[therealjae.livejournal.com]

It is the passive acceptance of hateful use of that word which leads to the assumption that all people who are childfree fit that horrid stereotype.

Passive acceptance of idiotic behaviour is one thing that leads to that assumption. Failure to think rationally about the pervasiveness of that idiotic behaviour is another.

-J

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but somehow I suspect not from her. Which is fine.

I spotted that too. Maybe, just maybe, she'll take a lesson, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sort of like the idjit in ginmar, who pulled a "prove a negative," and told me it he didn't have the responsibility back his positive case, because that issue wasn't deciding his vote.

He's not gonna like it either.

Been a cranky day. :)

Tk

[phantom_wolfboy]

There is a difference between being childless by choice and being an asshole.

Some people need to learn that difference.