OMFG.

[rivka]

So you might remember that I am preaching at my church - for the first time ever - on July 11. The monthly newsletter just recently came out with this sermon description:

July 11—“Life or Death Situations”
Rebecca Wald
Rebecca will share lessons she's learned from working with people who are dying and people who want to die - two sometimes-overlapping groups. Is assisted suicide the best we have to offer those among us who are dying?

One of the things that led to me feeling called to preach this sermon is that a member of our congregation, a physician active in the Final Exit Network, was arrested a year or two ago for assisting in a suicide in Georgia. When he came back to church the interim minister lauded him from the pulpit and he got a standing ovation from the congregation. I think that his position has sort of been automatically adopted as the church's position, because, well, he's one of the noisiest members. But I think that many people haven't really thought it through. That's one of the reason why I really, really want people to hear a different perspective.

Well. That member just called my house and spoke to Michael. He told Michael that he wanted to bring a number of people from outside the congregation to hear my sermon, and was that okay? Clearly he means his Final Exit Network/Hemlock Society buddies. Michael said - as, really, what else could he say? - "Come, come, whoever you are..." But shit.

OMFG I am panicking about this. I'm gonna be lynched. Well, probably not. But he's going to pack the audience with people who are hostile to me from the outset. As if this wasn't going to be hard enough already.

Comments

[ironphoenix.livejournal.com]

(here via friendsfriends page, thanks to pecumium)

Sympathies, from someone who has been preaching occasionally for a while. The first time is tough enough without adding in a hot controversy.

I would discuss the matter with my community leader (pastor/minister), and assure myself of her or his support. I would also be careful not to let myself get dragged into a post-service "debate" against a group, in part because I tend to be somewhat drained after preaching. Whether these things would make sense for you is, of course, something I can't presume!

In any case, good luck, and may the Spirit of wisdom lead you all!

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

how does feedback from the audience work during such a thing? by which i mean, can you just not call on them?

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

I feel for you, but remember that you've been called to preach about this.

Would it be worth it to let the guy in question know ahead of time what you're planning on saying. My thinking is that if he doesn't feel like he walked into a trap, that he's had the rug pulled from under his feet there's less of a chance of "lynching".

I'll pray about this for you, if it's okay.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

You're a smart, wise, compassionate woman who's clearly given a lot of thought to the subject. If you go into it with an open heart and an open mind, and an attitude of "this is a difficult, complicated issue, it has no single easy answer, so let's see if we can talk about it in a loving and respectful way," I think you'll do just fine.

[vom-marlowe.livejournal.com]

Ack!!

I'm so sorry, Rebecca.

I'd just like to say--I'm glad you're preaching about this. I'm a chronic pain patient and sometimes disabled, and I have so many mixed feelings about this topic, but some of the things you've said have really helped me. I love what you said once that the small voice inside of the suicidal patient who wants to live is the sane voice, the one that is calling for help, and that the answer is not death, but better pain management.

I'm not very coherent about this topic, because it is so close to my heart. I want to say, though, that by standing up, and preaching, you may help someone, and I think that is love, or good, or, as someone who isn't very standard religious, grace. Thank you. *flails around a bit more incoherently* THANK YOU. I'm sorry he's going to be an asshole, but I just want to say THANK YOU. A lot.

[zingerella.livejournal.com]

If it helps, try to remember that you're not there to convert anyone, and that you absolutely can't convert anyone who is ideologically opposed to your views.

That's not what you're there to do, I think.

You're not there for this doctor and his cronies, I don't think. You're there for the rest of the congregation, for those members of your community who don't have your experiences and maybe haven't thought about the perspective you've gained. For those who may or may not be swayed in their views, but are open to learning and hearing views that differ from those they've heard before.

A healthy community is one that can encounter views that challenge the established views, and consider those ideas and thoughts on their own merits, discuss them freely and respectfully, and permit community members to draw their own conclusions. It can accommodate differing, respectful, caring views without vilifying the person who says "But wait! There's another way to look at this, and I think it's important!"

This kind of "But wait!" is incredibly important in a healthy society. It takes a lot of courage. But it's what keeps us thinking, engaged, and questioning. It keeps us honest. It's kind of the foundation of the rationalist worldview. And a person who listens to what you have to say with an open heart, thinks about it, and still decides that doctor-assisted-suicide is something they support is actually doing something very different from a person who arrives at your sermon with their mind made up, spends the entirety of your sermon thinking of rebuttals, and leaves no more informed than they arrived.

It may help you to remember that the first person is a member of your target audience, as much as the person who revises their opinion in light of what you have to say. The second person--the one who musters rebuttals without actually listening--is not. They're just like the folks who pack Townhalls.

If your community cannot listen, think, and engage respectfully, and value your experiences, then the problem is much greater than their hypothetical rejection of what you're saying, methinks.

[telerib.livejournal.com]

Gah, I may be in NJ that weekend.

No lynching. That should be a rule.

Do you think they would be so terribly rude as to interrupt you while you are in the pulpit? And if they do, can you get a plant in the congregation to stand up and politely but firmly tell them that we don't Do That here? I totally will, if I'm in town but I may not be.

[stevendj.livejournal.com]

Did you see the article in today's Washington Post about the woman with terminal cancer who murdered her son, because he's paralyzed from the waist down and she thought he wouldn't be able to care for himself? (Even though he holds down a full-time job.)

I can see the theoretical model for thinking that assisted suicide would be a rational option, but it's like the theoretical model for thinking that libertarianism is a rational option--you don't have to read the newspapers long to see all the ways that people would fuck it up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/07/AR2010060704515.html

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

Darlin', you are the one who's convinced me that those who oppose assisted suicide *need* to be heard, because they're not just holding on to idiotic memes about how life is always sacred.

You're the one who made me realize that, okay, *if* we allow people to choose the time and place of their death, we have to be absolutely sure that they know they can have as happy, and as comfortable, a life first and foremost. That if anyone chooses to die out of despair or fear, it's a hideous failure on our parts... and we should always question the choice to die because if we don't, we might be passing up the chance to fight despair and relieve suffering.

You have the message, and the power, to do this right, and if you keep aware of that, you will not only handle this, you'll bring truth to those who'd oppose you. They might not agree with you - but you'll alter their perceptions.

[redbird]

I realize this is tangential, but I wonder why he asked Michael's permission for this, rather than either talking to the pastor, or telling Michael "Please ask Rivka to call me."

[kate-schaefer.livejournal.com]

Rivka, what a hard and necessary thing you're doing. You can do it.

You're going to say a number of difficult, carefully-nuanced things. The noisy member has been respectful enough to call and let you know that he's bringing people to hear you; you know that they are not likely to agree with you. An important value for UU is to allow different points of views to be heard. Would it be helpful (to you, for managing the situation, to the noisy member) for you to acknowledge to him the respect he has shown you already? Letting him know that you've noticed him being respectful could help him remember to continue to be respectful, could remind him to ask his friends to help him keep your respect.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

Aren't you assuming that he's coming in with a hostile attitude?

I think that people who are truly responsible proponents of assisted suicide will be people who search for answers outside of a cup of hemlock, simply so they don't develop the "all you have is a hammer" approach to life. ("If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.")

It's possible that he's doing exactly what you expect. But you might consider the possibility that this is not a set-up for confrontation.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Oh my God.

This. This is what disability rights advocates are talking about when they say that people's warped attitudes about what they are capable of put them in fear of their lives.

Thank you for pointing out that article.

[ailbhe]

I wish you good luck and polite listeners.

That date. That's the day before my due date, and the 14th is the third anniversary of my cousin and her baby's deaths. I will... read your blogging about your sermon with interest, if I can read it at all, but probably not with coherence.

[ailbhe]

The nicest thing I can think about that is that he didn't want to put Rivka on the spot so that she felt pressured into answering yes when she didn't want to.

I can think of a few other explanations too, of course.

[pameladean]

Is there any chance they are coming in good faith, to hear what you have to say?

P.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I don't know.

From my further research WHICH OBVIOUSLY I SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE, it appears that the man he helped kill was not terminally ill at all. He was cancer-free at autopsy, but relatives report that he felt very self-conscious about how the surgery changed the shape of his face.

And their organization "assisted the suicide" of a woman in Arizona who had no serious physical illnesses at all, but a longterm history of mental illness.

So now I seriously, no shit, feel like I am going to go into my church and be surrounded by murderers. I think it's time to call my minister.

[vom-marlowe.livejournal.com]

Oh my god.

Yeah, definitely time to call your minister. *shiver*

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

...it appears that the man he helped kill was not terminally ill at all. He was cancer-free at autopsy, but relatives report that he felt very self-conscious about how the surgery changed the shape of his face.

And their organization "assisted the suicide" of a woman in Arizona who had no serious physical illnesses at all, but a longterm history of mental illness.


Words fail me. How abhorrent.

Murderers who feel no remorse, who can't understand why what they're doing is wrong.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

I am so glad you're doing this. You have a sane, nuanced perspective on this issue. You have really had an influence on my thinking on the subject -- otherwise I might well be more like the Final Exit people.

So, it will be people like me who will be the ones who benefit. Those who have made up their minds already... there's not much you can do about them (although I think talking to your minister beforehand might be a good thing).

I'll be thinking of you.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

You can't hear it, but I'm eating my words now. They're very dry and crunchy, and don't go well with crow.

[aloha-moira.livejournal.com]

Very much this. Knowing you and reading your journal has done so much to help me acknowledge and challenge my ableism (although I'm ashamed to admit that I still struggle with it a lot). It sounds like this is a very important message for your congregation to hear, and you are really, really good at expressing it... you might not change the minds of these hardcore individuals, but I have no doubt you'll get a lot of people thinking.

I hope you can speak with the pastor and maybe even the guy himself ahead of time so you can be confident that these people won't disrupt you or "engage" in a disrespectful way. :/ Good luck...

[pameladean]

Oh, no. I'm really sorry. Yes, calling your minister sounds like a grand idea.

P.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

On the plus side, there usually isn't a Q&A portion to a sermon.

I think you'll be fine.

B

[ororo.livejournal.com]

Wow, and echoing a lot of the above. You're certainly up to this, and I hope your quiet confidence and overall rationalist will give your church members enough pause to THINK.

[stfg.livejournal.com]

Hi there- I'm a family physician and a UU. Reading through the post and the comments, I was thinking that there was surely more common ground available for discussion on this topic than there is on say, abortion. Surely both you and they would agree that it is important to treat pain so people don't feel death is their only only option. Or that it is important to make sure people do not have psychiatric problems that would unduly affect their ability to make decisions like this. I thought that even if you and they disagreed about whether physician-assisted suicide should be an option when all other options have been exhausted, there would be plenty of opportunity for fruitful, positive discussion.

This comment changed my mind though. It's important to bring thoughtfulness and compassion and an awareness of each individual situation to this kind of thing and it sounds as if they are so sure of their ideological position that they have lost sight of that.

I am personally deeply conflicted on the issue. I'd love to see a copy of your sermon sometime if you feel able to make it public. :)

[erikted.livejournal.com]

I just want to say that you have been piece of the influence that has has me to rethink and temper my own previously knee-jerk and not very thought out views on this topic. And I was willing to let in your perspective, as well as that of others, because it come from someone I generally like and respect. As I suspect most of your congregation likes and respects you, which opens a door.

I've had the experience, when speaking out to spiritual and/or personal growth communities, that opening by sharing my own feelings and needs in the moment can be quite helpful in making a true connection. Things like, "I'm standing up here with shaking knees and no small bit of terror, because what I'm about to share with you is deeply and personally important to me, and I know that my views are likely very, very different from those of many others in the room. I'm am, perhaps irrationally, fearful of losing some of the warm and loving connections that I've come to treasure so much in our community, and yet I also feel deeply called to speak what's in my heart on this issue. What I would like to ask of you today is to simply listen. Listen with open ears, open heart, and open mind, as I pray I would be able to listen to any of you who felt called to share your own deep truth. For my part, I promise both to share as best I can from the deepest and truest part of myself, and to continue to hold each of you with love, honor and respect no matter whether, in the end, we agree or disagree..." Those are the kinds of words I'd use, but they may not fit at all for you.

But you'll find your own, and they will be as wonderful as the are true.

In those rare moments when I've been able to stand in the center of my truth and speak it from deep in my center, without attachment to outcome, I've never had an ultimately "bad" result, even when there was deep disagreement.

And yes, I'd love it if you'd share a copy of your remarks, as well as how it goes for you.

[lizzibabe.livejournal.com]

I entirely agree with everyone's point. I'd like to add that maybe you can consider this to be a gift of knowledge that prepares you for anything that can happen. Knowing that anything can happen will keep you on your toes. Luck, beautiful one!

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Hi! Thanks for weighing in. Yes, I will certainly be posting my sermon here - as well as, probably, lots of leading-up bits and pieces preparing for my sermon over the coming month.

I agree that this is a very difficult issue. My perspective comes primarily from the standpoint that this:

it is important to make sure people do not have psychiatric problems that would unduly affect their ability to make decisions like this

seems impossible to me, given my training and experience. (I am fully trained as a clinical psychologist, although I am not licensed.) I know of no legitimate way for a psychologist or psychiatrist to assert that someone who wants to commit suicide is not clinically depressed. Because, um, a profound sense of hopelessness and a sense that one's suffering is both purposeless and unending, so much so that death is the only possible recourse? Is pretty much the definition of depression.

The only way that a mental health professional could certify that someone wanting to commit suicide is not depressed is if they agree that the person's situation is hopeless and that their continued life would have no value. And although we might think that we can make that judgment impartially and rationally, I am convinced that our judgment in such matters is contaminated by ableism and deep-seated fears of disability.

So. Um. Feel free to stick around.

[selki.livejournal.com]

Augh.  Do you think the congregation knew about either of those details when they gave him a standing ovation?

If my attending your church sermon that day as a friendly face would be of any use, please say the word.  I don't know that much about the topic, other that it's complicated, that there may be situations where assisted suicide is the best option for a person, and other situations where it's not, with internal and external pressure toward and against suicide.  At any rate, I'm sure you've thought carefully and deeply on this.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

In the UU fellowship I used to attend, there was.

[tchemgrrl.livejournal.com]

I know that I would have an incredibly hard time under that combination of circumstances, and I think that talking to your minister makes tons of sense.

If it helps at all, I can easily picture myself applauding for him--a fellow-church-member making a hard moral choice that they believed in--even if I didn't actually have a strong opinion on the topic. (And I don't, actually--which is why I find your perspective on this so interesting.) I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people in the congregation aren't in a similar place as I am. No way would I allow a bunch of outsiders to lynch you.