Prescriptivism for the masses...

[rivka]

"Can you provide proof that something was once part of English usage, which doesn't come from (*sneer*) the popular literature of the time?"

*banging head on keyboard*

Comments

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

I was wondering how I had gotten myself into dot_cattiness...

Yikes.

The only hope for the assignment is if there is a distinction (a horrible on, IMHO) between "popular" and "high brow" literature. So Chaucer and Shakespeare count as high brow, and not popular.

Blergh.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Things become part of English usage by being widely used in English, for God's sake. How complicated can that possibly be?

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

Yes. True. I was thinking the teacher was trying to draw distinctions about different paths -- word introduced orally, words introduced through formal speeches, words introduce through foreign cultures, words introduced through literature.

The problem is that if you go back far enough, we really only have the literature to check to see if the people used the words, so it's self-defeating.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

As far as I can tell, this isn't a teacher - just someone who wants to sneer at the "PCism" of gender-neutral pronouns, and has a hard time with being proven wrong.

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

Ah. Light is shed. I'm too tired to code, and too tired for LJ, apparently! ;-)

It would be an interesting assignment. Find words in English that entered through non-literary means.

[elusis.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you could come up with loads of street slang, but I rather doubt that someone sneering at "popular literature" would find them an appropriate reference.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

... Except, of course, that in their day, Shakespeare and Chaucer were the popular literature (at least for those who could read.)

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

I know -- which is why the distinction between "popular" literature and "real" literature is a dumb one. But if someone believed in and delineated the two, then asking for references not in "popular" literature might make sense.

But don't worry -- I was missing the boat in general on this thread.

[therealjae.livejournal.com]

*blood-curdling scream*

-J

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. I should really custom-group you out of things like this, shouldn't I?

[therealjae.livejournal.com]

I am strong, I can take it. *gritting teeth*

-J

[melebeth]

Gosh. People who provide good references for their arguments are so hot. I have to say that I'm feeling a bit swoony towards you right now. I really am. Even excusing the general swooniness of my day.

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

Gosh... I was going to offer a resounding MEEEOW, but this is the wrong place. How about a nice kowtow, instead?

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

No need to bang your head on the keyboard; your send-off line to her was a priceless riposte.

Maybe bang *her* head with a keyboard.

[boxofdelights]

That's exactly what I was going to say.

[neonnurse.livejournal.com]

You rock extremely, Rivka!

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I see - can you provide an earlier example,

That's what the OED reference I linked to was: documentation of four hundred-plus years of English usage of "they" as a singular indeterminate-gender pronoun. If you want something earlier than the 1395 Chaucer reference, then I think you're being a little unreasonable.

A genuine actual physical shortness-of-breath swoony-type physiological reaction, not unrelated to intense desire, was engendered by your line here, Rivka. Just so you know.

*Whew. . is it warm in here, or is it just me?

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Hey, baby, wanna come up and see my metabasis?

[ailbhe]

Yes, please.

[redbird]

I wandered over there, read the original post, and proceeded to add a further snark: I seem to have been the first person to notice that the complainer wrote "gender-neutral nouns", not "pronouns".

[mittelbar.livejournal.com]

*beem*

unreasonable

[neilmonk.livejournal.com]

I am going to be up all night trying to understand "Can you provide proof of usage that is not written." Er?

[melebeth]

Non post related link to an interesting Howard Dean Article for you... http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/07/magazine/07DEAN.html