Flu shots.

[rivka]

Normally, I get my flu shot at work. They're eager to vaccinate us because our immunocompromised patients would otherwise be at high risk of catching the flu from an infected employee.

I asked a couple of the nurse practitioners whether we were getting flu shots this year. One of them told me that the patient clinics haven't received any flu vaccine yet. Apparently, there's been some discussion about rationing within the patient population - saving the vaccine for patients with lower CD4+ cell counts.

So I called my primary care provider. They don't have the vaccine, and they're not expecting to get any in. The nurse advised me to call the health department. So I checked the health department website, and discovered that they don't have any vaccine and aren't expecting to get any in. They recommend calling your primary care provider.

I knew my midwife's office wouldn't have the vaccine, but I called to ask if they knew where I could get it. Nope.

Employee Health at the hospital doesn't have it, and won't be getting the injectible vaccine. They might be getting a few doses of FluMist, the intranasal vaccine, which pregnant women can't take.

I knew there was a shortage, but I had no idea it was this bad.

If it were just me, or just me and the Li'l Critter, I'd be willing to take my chances. I mean, if I were to get the flu, the danger to the baby would be either from (1) fever, which can be safely controlled with Tylenol during pregnancy, or (2) dehydration, which can be treated with an IV. The flu wouldn't kill me, and it wouldn't kill the baby.

But if I got the flu, it might kill one of my patients. I'm not being hyperbolic. I have patients whose ability to mount an immune response is damn near zero.

Meanwhile, in childfree, a healthy college student is bragging about managing to arrange a flu shot for herself. I quote: "I'm feeling good about it, because I keep telling myself I'm taking one away from some little brat who really doesn't need one."

Comments

[geminigirl]

Sick people....that's just wrong.

In theory I'm supposed to get one because of the asthma and I'm leaning towards skipping it cause there are people who need it more than I do.

I don't care if you're a childhater, (okay, I do but that's another story) but finding glee in someone else who needs that flu shot more than you do is just wrong. And Karma bites. Hard.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

finding glee in someone else who needs that flu shot more than you do is just wrong.

Well, children over the age of two aren't considered high-risk (http://www.ci.baltimore.md.us/government/health/flu.html") unless they've got a chronic illness. So they're in the same category that she is.

If I were you, I'd let your doctor or the public health authorities decide whether you ought to be vaccinated or not. Your asthma is no joke, and with job hunting and so forth you're going to have a lot of public contact this flu season.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

*shudder*

This is why I specify that I am childless but not childfree.

You just watch...in 50 years, this person will be demanding their flu shot because they are at higher risk becaus they are older.

Living in a dorm does not confer a significantly higher risk.

Twit.

[therealjae.livejournal.com]

To me that sounds like pointing at nasty heterophobes and saying: "They're the reasons I specify that I'm homosexual but not gay."

'Childfree' means 'someone who's made a conscious decision not to have children'. That's all. It's a useful word, and letting a few idiots poison it for the rest of us is just dumb.

-J

[pnh.livejournal.com]

Wow, that was a repulsive post and batch of comments over on "childfree." Is this a real subculture I've missed the existence of? Eeeyuck.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

You. Have. No. Idea.

Clearly you have yet to be introduced to such charming phrases as crotchfruit.

And only gets worse from there.

[jenett]

Yuck on the comments.

I need to talk to my doctor about it - I normally get one because between the lung scarring and asthma (even if not normally that bad) and the interaction with kids (many of whom have younger siblings: lots of stuff gets passed around), it seems sensible.

On the other hand, if I'm *not* getting a flu shot (and with the shortages the way they are, I don't think I will be, unless my doctor has a very different view of my overall health than I think she does...) I want to know for certain what symptoms need particular attention, and if I'm a good candidate for some of 'make symptoms easier/make it milder' stuff.

But that's just being a mature adult, y'know? There are people out there who need it lots more than I do.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Is there any way of estimating the risk an immuno-compromised person experiences by going around in day-to-day stuff within a population that's not been immunized against the flu, versus a population that has (mostly) been? I figure it has to be higher, but I'm not sure how to estimate how much higher.

I appreciate that you definitely do not want to be the vector by which the disease is transmitted, and I hope you can get a shot to prevent that. I'm just wondering how many other potential vectors your patients will also be interacting with.

[perigee.livejournal.com]

Wow, I hope that healthy college student grows up and learns to be polite.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

I just joined childfree, so I could vent. It isn't so much the boasting of getting one, or the pointless fear (young, healthy, aware... low risk of the flu, and less risk of complication), as the tone, and then the tenor of her defense.

So, I said...

As opposed to healthy adults, with immune systems fully developed, and who are aware enough to such precautions as basic hygiene and want it to avoid inconvenience?

Lets accept, arguendo, that you're not going to a clinic to take it away from someone who has a compromised immune system, your response... about little brats, and your explation, that your doctor has an eldery/sick client base don't really mesh... because that's one of your doctors patients who isn't getting it. One of those older people, or people with cancer; who might be weakened from chemo.

If you want to be selfish, go ahead, but don't lie to yourself about what you're doing.

I doubt I'm gonna get much love.


TK

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I doubt I'm gonna get much love.

Aw, Terry, you know you'll always get love from me.

The thing that struck me is how precisely she's projected her own attitude onto others. She justifies her choice with this whole routine about how awful it is that parents will try to get their children vaccinated even though the kids aren't really at elevated risk, and even though it means depriving the elderly and sick.

It's so nice of her to worry about the tiny speck in the eyes of these imagined parents, when she's got that great big beam in her own. Selfless, really.

[flyfreeizzie.livejournal.com]

We were talking about the flu vaccine shortage in my preventative health issues class. We had a dr in occupational health talking about how bad it is in some areas... such as Santa Barb and many healthcare workers are not able to get the vaccine... the potential consequence of that for the health care workers and the people they interact with.

I need to get the flu shot according to my doctor becuase 1: i live on campus 2: my immune system is not great being on immunosuprresants and having a autoimmunne disease but I wonder how much protection it actually provides. I got it last year because student health here does a pretty good job of actually holding back some of the vaccines for people with special circumstances and even make you get approval from one of the head doctors there before they will give it to you in order to make sure that at least the most at risk people get it. and so that people like this little college girl you mentioned wont be likely to get one at the sacrifice of someone who really needs it.

Anyways, I hope that the clinic your in will somehow be able to help you out being pregnant and at risk, etc.. cant be on meds and so on...

Iz

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

I can appreciate the conscious decision not to bring a child into the world, but bragging that one is denying a needed resource to another person who is the result of a differing philosophy is hateful and stupid.

Sadly, I cannot say that the story you relate above is a one-off; many of the folks I've encountered who label themselves "childfree" behave in aggressively anti-child ways, almost at the level of homophobic behavior towards gays (excepting physical violennce).

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

(excepting physical violennce).


That may be because, unlike violence towards gays (at least until recently), the authorities are all over violence to children (at least by people not their parents) and you *will* go to jail.

It's cold out there

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

My son has asthma and I was hospitalized with pneumonia this spring. I called his pediatrician to see if either of us was high-enough risk to get vaccine. She said grimly that there were only enough doses for 1/3 of the high-risk cases, and that we should go to the flu clinic our health center has and wait -- they'll be doing triage on the spot to determine who gets the vaccinations. We might get lucky, we might not.

Here's hoping that this is a very, very mild flu season, and I hope you can find the vaccine. I'm shocked but not surprised that your hospital can't get it at all.

[phantom_wolfboy]

There is a difference between being childless by choice and being an asshole.

Some people need to learn that difference.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

So where is this shortage, and why? I've never heard of it before this thread. In Calgary I saw ads for clinics, and ours don't usually start until November.

[beckyzoole.livejournal.com]

The shortage is in the US; Canada is probably not affected. It was caused because British authorities shut down the factory of a major supplier of flu vaccine to the US, Chiron corporation, due to bacterial contamination.

Canadian health departments may get their vaccine from a different source. In which case, I wonder how long it will be before busloads of Americans start trekking up to Canada for a flu shot?

[msagara.livejournal.com]

The thing about small children is that they're often cared for -- outside of daycares -- by their elderly grandparents, who are susceptible. In Japan, flu-shots for the very young (who would not be considered high risk) save, in some estimates, thousands of lives a year -- because those children don't get the 'flu, and don't become the vector by which their grandparents/caregivers do.

[platypus]

Given the severity of the shortage, the clinic I went to is denying the shots to those in close contact with high risk people; they say the high-risk people themselves need to be vaccinated, but there isn't enough to do their family members too.

I'm a bit disturbed to hear that the student health center on campus has the vaccine. Sure, you don't want to see a mini-epidemic at a college, and everyone's in close quarters so these things do spread easily, but the vast majority of college kids are young 'n healthy and for them getting the flu is more an inconvenience than a threat to life. They miss a week of class, and someone's grandma ends up in the hospital because she couldn't find any vaccine?

[platypus]

I found a grocery store offering the shots via http://www.findaflushot.com. Looks like the clinics are going to be suspended after tomorrow, though. I have asthma, so I fell into the high-risk group. I felt a bit guilty about possibly taking a shot away from someone in worse shape, but I also didn't feel comfortable taking a pass this year; I mean, if they'd said "this is the last vaccine right here, and the lady behind you is 70 and has emphysema," I'd have backed off, but I do also enjoy breathing.

[wiredferret.livejournal.com]

Baz and I got shots, but sil didn't even though he is on the CDC list. We aren't fighting that.

And as for triage, it would have been me first, so the little one is protected for those first six months, and then Baz.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Li'l Critter isn't due until the end of flu season, so that doesn't enter into it for me. But yeah, absolutely, you first.

[eleroach13.livejournal.com]

Hi - you actually don't know me, but I dropped in through someone else's journal.
I've got athsma, and got it pretty sucky, too.
But I'm not getting a shot, because, well, other people need it more than I do.

You can have mine.
Have a great day.
~Elle

[writingortyping.livejournal.com]

What gets me is that Childfree College-Brat's mother is a *nurse* and she is arranging this special treatment for her precious li'l one.

CCB doesn't have any extraordinary duty of care towards her fellow citizens (she's being stupid, smug, and selfish, but she isn't broaching any sort of duty of care). Her mother, on the other hand, is supposedly in the healthcare profession. Presumably, she comes face to face with people who are truly in need on a regular basis. She should know better.

[lisajulie.livejournal.com]

My father (in the high-risk segment because of age) got one at Costco with not much of a wait. Admittedly, this was in Bend, OR. But there is a significant community of retired folks there and the open clinics were still going on. You might want to check out places like Costco and Giant Foods to see if you can get one there.

[cheshyre]

However did you run across that odious toad in childfree?
Ugh

[ailbhe]

I hope you get your shot.

And I'm again very grateful that I know at least some people who think that my choosing to be a stay-at-home mother full-time as a career is a respectable choice, otherwise the existence of that community would just about flatten me.

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Sorry getting to this so late...

Disclaimer: I'm a prior member of childfree. At the time it was very cathartic given the nervous-wreck new mom I shared an office with. But yes, a goodly number of the more vocal membership can be quite vitriolic.

Even so, I'm amazed at the sheer mean-spiritedness of the post - taking glee in denying healthcare to someone else - whether you happen to like that someone else and their ilk or not - is just repellent. I confess I take it rather personally, as my mom (over 65) and sister (on immunosuppressant drugs) haven't even found a vaccine provider yet.

I hope you're able to get the shot. It looks like Aventis Pasteur is trying to ship more/faster.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I loathe that community.

[cheshyre]

Did you see, Congress and congressional staffers are all being urged to get flu shots because of their contact with the public...

http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/surfdomarchives/002821.php