Urban politeness.

[rivka]

Vignette 1: I am sitting on a bench along the sidewalk, eating a sandwich. At the other end of the bench, a middle-aged man is talking quietly on his cell phone. I catch phrases here and there - benign ones, at first, but then he starts repeating, "Why you got to say that? Why you got to talk like that?" His tone remains mild.

Suddenly, he gets up from the bench and walks over to stand about ten feet away from me, still talking into the cell phone. It's still close enough for me to hear him, because he's gotten much louder: "Listen, bitch, you better remember who you're talking to!"

I was a bit taken aback, but pleased that he was considerate enough not to disrupt my lunch or make me nervous by shouting obscenities right next to me.

Vignette 2: I get onto a very crowded bus. There are no seats at all, even in the front section that's reserved for the elderly and people with disabilities, so I brace myself to stand. A frail older woman who looks to be about seventy catches my eye and starts to rise.

"Miss, would you like to sit down?"

"Oh no, ma'am, you don't have to get up."

Immediately, two middle-aged, apparently able-bodied men fall all over themselves to get up and offer me their seats. They'd be the right age to be sons of the older woman, although they obviously don't know her. "Here you go, miss, my stop's about to come up." "You can sit right here."

I thank them as I sit down, and then thank the older woman - who seems quite satisfied with the response to her etiquette lesson.

Comments

[maureenkspeller.livejournal.com]

They're apparently starting a scheme on London Transport, to give pregnant women badges to wear, inviting people to give up their eats. The newspaper report suggested that many people felt embarrassed about offering a pregnant woman a seat in case they'd got it horribly wrong and she wasn't pregnant at all, and many pregnant women felt unable to ask people to surrender their seats.

I can understand that latter ... PK has intermittent problems with his knee and while he looks superficially fine, standing for long periods is agony. But he feels totally unable to ask for a seat because he doesn't look obviously disabled. This is partly why I insist he uses a stick when he's got problems, simply as a visible reminder to others. However, on one magnificent occasion on the Underground, a member of the Underground staff saw him come limping along the platform and get on the train, somehow noticed he was having to stand and got on the train to demand that someone give up their seat for him. I think he came from the same set of moulds as your older woman. Interestingly, I notice in London that it's almost invariably young women who get up to offer other women seats.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

There is no way on earth that I would wear a badge to let people on the bus know that I'm pregnant. When I wasn't pregnant enough to very obviously show, I just stood if there were no seats.

When I was more disabled than I am now, for a long time I found it impossible to ask for a seat. Carrying a stick probably does help, but I have found that it's not always sufficient. Eventually I was so unable to stand that I had to figure out how to get up the guts to ask. But it was hard.

[maureenkspeller.livejournal.com]

There is no way on earth that I would wear a badge to let people on the bus know that I'm pregnant. When I wasn't pregnant enough to very obviously show, I just stood if there were no seats.

I frankly have my doubts about its efficacy. We shall see. I'm occasionally offered a seat on the Underground, though I can't determine whether it's because I'm female, look pregnant or deathly ill; I usually accept if I'm going a long way as I figure it doesn't hurt people to exercise that politeness thing, but actually I'm usually quite happy standing.

I was actually quite shocked at how people treated PK when we were out, during the period when he was having to use a stick quite heavily.People, usually men, would just barge past us on the stairs, when it was obvious that he needed space and to go slowly, while older people would always make room, step round and so on. In the end, I took to acting as a human shield, taking his arm or keeping pace with him on the stairs so people had to slow down and take notice. It made me very angry.

[nellorat.livejournal.com]

People, usually men, would just barge past us on the stairs, when it was obvious that he needed space and to go slowly, while older people would always make room, step round and so on.

This supports a conclusion I've reached from how people treat my sister with lupus, which is that most rudeness like this to people with physical problems is due to ignorance, and in our culture most people who don't themselves have physical problems are blissfully ignorant of the whole issue. When my sib went back to grad school, none of her twenty-something fellow students had the dimmest notion of how someone could just be unable to work long hours, stay out late, etc. I mean, my sib would say that about themselves, and it had no impact on the fellow students, because there was no place for it in their mental landscapes.

[boxofdelights]

This is something that all children should be explicitly taught. It isn't hard to teach: a few explanations, a couple of times of hauling the child into the appropriate passing distance. But most children won't realize unless you tell them that most people need more space than they do, and that if someone could be hurt by being jostled, it isn't enough that you are sure you won't jostle them; you've got to leave enough space that they are sure you won't jostle them.

Anyone who hasn't learned this is a barbarian. Any culture that doesn't teach this to its children is not civilized.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

I still can't do it, even when I really need it.

People here are often very good about it, though it seems to be inversely proportional to how much I'm carrying -- if I have a lot of shopping, I'm clearly judged fit enough to stand.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

I've had days when I've brought my cane places when I didn't quite need it, because I knew it'd get me a seat, and I needed to sit down. Because I don't limp when I'm in a lot of pain, there's really no way for anyone to see, otherwise, and I have to request seats when I want them.

seats on London Transport

[(Anonymous)]

When I was first pregnant, in London in 1987, I had very low blood pressure in the first trimester and used to faint if I stood for long. The pregnancy wasn't showing of course, but I found it quite effective in a British Rail train compartment, to say loudly, "I'm pregnant, and if someone doesn't stand up for me, I *will* faint on you!" No shortage of seats, at all ;-).

In later stages of later pregnancies, in Sydney, it was always women who stood for me on trains. Men would take the 'bury head in paper' option.

Emma