(no subject)

[rivka]

Well, that was a growth experience.

I got Alex to sleep around 7:30 and put her down in the crib. She slept beautifully while I cooked and ate dinner and watched TV with Michael and uploaded more pictures of our Colorado vacation. At 10:45 I went up to bed, and before I'd been upstairs five minutes Alex started to stir. She woke up, I gave her a bottle, she fell asleep in my lap, I put her back in the crib. She did need a couple extra minutes of me standing over the crib patting her and making soothing sounds, but then she settled and everything was just fine.

At 1:30 she woke up again. Not hungry, just unhappy. I got her soothed and back down by 2. At 2:30, same thing, except that as 3:00 wore on her crying escalated to the point that I decided she was hungry and gave her another bottle. She sucked it down, fell asleep on my lap, I put her back in the crib, and she was wide awake and writhing. Hard crying. Refusal to fall asleep in my arms. I tried lying down on the futon couch with her, but the angle was too steep and she cried some more. We rocked and rocked. At 4:30, she was finally soundly asleep enough that I lay her down in her crib. Then I lay down on the couch myself, tense, and waited. I must have drifted off a little bit, because there were some dream fragments. But mostly I was rigid on the couch waiting for Alex to wake up and cry.

She obliged at 5:00. Without further ado, I scooped her up, carried her down to our bedroom, and crawled in bed with Michael. "We just need some sleep," I explained to him. I discovered later (when Michael returned them to me) that I'd been so tired I left my glasses behind. That's just not something that happens. But Alex and I slept peacefully side-by-side in the big bed until 7:20. The end.

Boy, am I looking forward to tonight.

Comments

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Poor tired darling. *cuddle*

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

IIRC, the trick to crying is to give them more and more time alone each time until they finally twig that you're not going to come in just because they're crying.

So, 5 minutes, then 10, then 15...and don't necessarily pick her up, just touch her.

(Of course, my memories are dim past, my younger son (who you meet at N4) is already 10 and going into 5th grade this year!

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

It's actually become a *highly* controversial subject, up there with religion and who the best rock drummer is. There seems to be a subgroup of "attachment parenting" folk who feel not just that never leaving your child alone is a good thing but feel that those who attempt to wean their child off of the need for constant contact as described above are irresponsible and are torturing their children. While the number of people who would put it that way are certainly in the minority, it seems to be something about which a great deal of fervor abounds.

[balmofgilead.livejournal.com]

It's not just a subgroup of attachment parenting people...there's debate about whether it's good to let kids "cry it out" among "regular" parents as well.

Twenty-two years ago mom got a lot of flak from relatives for not letting me cry and cry rather than going in to pick me up. Her belief was that if a baby's crying, the baby needs something. Whether I turned out well is anyone's guess, but my mom and I are still talking...unlike many of my cousins and their moms ;)

[rivka.livejournal.com]

There seems to be a subgroup of "attachment parenting" folk who feel not just that never leaving your child alone is a good thing but feel that those who attempt to wean their child off of the need for constant contact as described above are irresponsible and are torturing their children.

I would say, for myself, that I think it's an excellent thing for Alex to develop independence at her own pace. When she was a tiny baby she wanted me to hold her all the time, and I did. At about three months old, she started to want to play on the floor with her toys instead of being held all the time. Now she'll play independently for up to a half-hour at a stretch. She matured to the point that she was ready not to have constant contact with Mama - I didn't force it.

Similarly, I think it would be great if she could get herself back to sleep when she wakes at night, without needing my help. I'm doing lots of things to try to encourage that transition. As she improves in her ability to soothe herself, I'll gradually withdraw the things I'm doing to soothe her. But I want her to know, bedrock-solid, that whenever she needs her parents, one of us will be there. And I think that the best way to let her know that is by responding and helping her when she cries.

I don't think that it's abusive or irresponsible to use the method Dave suggested, but I do think it reflects a weird attitude about kids that doesn't carry over to other relationships. I mean, if one of your partners were crying, would you ignore her so that she'd learn that she can't get your attention by crying? Or would you try to comfort her?

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Honestly? It would depend on the partner and the relationship; I'd be entirely likely to let her stew and finish up whatever else I was doing for a bit if the crying was mainly because I wasn't there.

But I also expect an adult to tell me WHY they're crying which is, I submit, unreasonable to expect of infants ;)

[elusis.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I think you're doing a fine job of splitting the difference. Learning self-soothing is good. Some emotions and needs just get too big to be self-soothed right now, but startng to learn to self-regulate the smaller stuff isn't unreasonable, especially as close and attentive as you still are.

I had friends whose 2-year-old started the "getting up and crying" thing after sleeping alone well for a long while. I coached them on identifying the difference between crying she could reasonably be expected to calm herself down from, and crying that indicated she was getting overwhelmed. They reassured the former from a distance, soothed the latter with attention and cuddles, and she sorted herself out in a couple of weeks.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

When I was a babysitter, I found it fairly easy to differentate between cranky-crying, where the kid would usually fall asleep again, and distress-crying, where I'd go in and check on them. At least after a little experience; one of the first kids I ever babysat would cry if you left, every time. Putting him to bed tended to be a process of lying on the floor and then slowly sneaking out, but that was when I was young and unhardened.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

IIRC, the trick to crying is to give them more and more time alone each time until they finally twig that you're not going to come in just because they're crying.

But I am going to go in to her just because she's crying. I'm following a gradual method of teaching her to calm herself at night, starting with my full repertoire of calming behaviors (holding, rocking, singing, soothing) and gradually shifting to a more minimalist intervention (patting and soothing without picking her up, verbally soothing from cribside, verbally soothing from the doorway...) as she starts to be better at soothing herself.

For me, in my gut, it wouldn't feel right to just leave Alex to cry.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I don't think it ever feels right as a parent to let your kids cry.

I happen to believe it's necessary at times, but Alex likely to be far different from my kids (for your sake, I hope she turns out as lovely and intelligent as her mother, rather than hyper like my two monstersboys.

(Oh, and there is no One True Path in parenting -- we all muddle through as best as we can and kids grow up just fine).

[rivka.livejournal.com]

She was sleeping pretty well in the co-sleeper, waking only once or twice a night and then going right back to sleep after I fed her. So I think that she'll be okay again after the transition period. I really don't mind feeding her at night - in my opinion, if she wakes up, sucks down a bottle in five minutes, and then goes back to sleep, it's clearly a bottle she needed. I just hope she rediscovers the ability to sleep four or five hours at a stretch, in the new place.

And yes, of course, there's no True Path. You know your kids a hell of a lot better than I ever could, so it would be crazy for me to tell you what you should've done with them. ;-)

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

it would be crazy for me to tell you what you should've done with them

There are times when wrapping them in duct tape for a few hours seems entirely reasonable.

[(Anonymous)]

There are times when wrapping them in duct tape for a few hours seems entirely reasonable.

Heh, swaddling? ;-)

My child, Henry, is still only 8 weeks old, so we still swaddle him. It makes a world of difference in his sleep. He was having a real problem getting to sleep, and staying asleep before we swaddled. Now he's down for 5-7 hours at a stretch (and definitely thriving in the weight department). Obviously, Alex is too old for swaddling to help.

Rivka, have you heard of The No Cry Sleep Solution? I haven't read the part for older babies yet, but the goal is to get babies of all ages to sleep through the night, without the crying. I'm sorry you had a night like that, I hope it's an isolated incident!

I'm on the little to no crying side of the fence. It's been proven that humans have a very strong reaction to a crying baby. Our instincts are telling us to soothe our babies, so we should soothe our babies. I will occasionally let Henry cry for up to 5 minutes, if he's not due for a feeding, just been changes, and is showing all signs of being tired, but I'm within arms reach in case anything is really wrong. He'll also get to cry if we're in the car, and within 10 minutes or so of our destination. But that's the limit, and I'm certainly not going to let him expect that he needs to cry to fall asleep. We put him down when he's awake but sleepy, swaddled and with a full tummy, and the nights when that works well are the nights when he sleeps the best.

Terribly sorry...

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

Apologies for two items:
1. I just posted that, but was logged off. So that was me.
2. I read back further in my friends list, you *have* read NCSS. I've been offline for quite some time and am just catching up....

[wiredferret.livejournal.com]

That was usually our pattern when the kids were that little -- in their crib until the last wakeup of the night, and then I'd get too exhausted to deal with it and bring them to bed with us.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that you both managed to get *some* sleep. The things parents will do! ;) As a non-parent working only from scant anecdotal evidence, though, it seems a good sign of a well-behaved Alex that this was a growth experience and not a normal way of things.

[minnaleigh.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry the first night was so rough. I wish you a short transitional period.