Bad mama night.

[rivka]

People say that if you are known as someone who never yells, and then suddenly you yell, you will be taken very seriously indeed. This turns out not to be true. I'm not sure if that's fortunate, or unfortunate.

But let me back up, and start at the beginning.

Next week we're going back to the pediatrician for Alex's 18-month well-child visit. The biggest thing I'm concerned about is the weight check. As you may recall, at 15 months she hadn't gained any weight since the 12 month appointment, and overall she's slipped in the growth chart from the 75th percentile (at 9 months) to the 13th percentile for weight. Over the last couple of months, we've been striving to feed her larger quantities of more substantial foods. She looks a little more filled-out to me, but whether she's actually gained weight is anyone's guess.

In preparation for the appointment, I wanted to keep a three-day food diary for Alex. That way, if she hasn't gained adequately, we'll have a starting point for the discussion. Today was our first day of recordkeeping, and unfortunately, it was one of those days that makes you wonder if toddlers can subsist on air.

At dinner, all she wanted to do was play. I tried to push food on her - something I normally try very hard not to do, because duh, it backfires. As her play got increasingly rambunctious, and I envisioned myself writing "one-half teaspoon of chicken, one teaspoon of broccoli" on the food diary, I lost my temper. I gave her a warning and then took the tableware she was playing with away. She threw a tantrum. Michael took her out of her chair and cuddled her while I fought to control my anger. Trying to get her back in the highchair was fruitless, so he whisked her away to the bathtub.

When she came back down in her pajamas, I really tried hard. I suggested that she might like a bite of elephant instead of chicken, and she actually took a bite. She picked up a piece of bread and called it a giraffe, and had a bite or so. I tried to relax and let go of expectations. But quickly she was back to whining to get down, and I was pleading with her to "at least drink your milk." No go. The two bites she took at the outset of the zoo game were the only two bites she took.

We played for a while, read some stories. Then she asked for cheese. Repeatedly. "Cheese? Cheese? Cheese?" She even ran to the gate at the kitchen door and stood there, grinning. So I got her a little plate, and gave her a slice of cheese cut into triangles (because she loves triangles) and a handful of grapes. She nibbled off about one square milimeter of cheese, and then threw it down and ran away, giggling.

And I yelled: "You asked me for cheese, now EAT THE CHEESE."

She ignored me and went off to play. And for the next fifteen minutes or so, I ignored her. Picked up the Brust book I got for my birthday and totally ignored her. No more stories. I wouldn't have kept it up if she had wanted to interact, but she played on her own with apparent unconcern. Eventually she came back for another story, and was willing to eat the grapes if I just sort of made them appear in her hand one by one. But she avoided the cheese entirely. Like a total goddamned fool who had never met a toddler before, I tried to insist; I won't bother spelling out how well that worked.

She's been in bed for an hour and fifteen minutes, asleep for about forty-five minutes. I am still feeling angry, although much of it is now directed at myself.

Rationally, it makes sense to have a food diary to take with us to the doctor. Emotionally, I'm not sure I can do it. Not if Alex isn't going to eat a reasonable amount of food, anyway. Trying to document every bite of food stirs up all of my anxieties about her health, and my panic that maybe she isn't gaining weight. And then? Fruitless power struggles with an 18-month-old who has absolute control over what she puts in her mouth. I don't know why I can't just disengage, when I know perfectly well that the only way to win food battles is not to fight them.

Right now, someone reading this is mentally beginning their comment with, "She's obviously a perfectly healthy child..." But in fact, I'm not so sure. She has more sluggish, low-energy days than I'd like to see - mixed in with monkey-on-uppers days, sure, but still. She often seems to be just a little... off. It's the kind of thing that makes me wonder if we should get her checked for anemia... or if she might not be getting enough calories.

The kind of thing that makes me go ballistic when she won't eat TWO BITES OF CHICKEN when BOTH OF US KNOW THAT SHE LOVES CHICKEN.

Because we all know how much that kind of thing helps.

Okay, rambling in circles = time to stop. I think I'll go downstairs and disembowel a pumpkin.

Comments

[eeyorerin]

Food diaries always drove me mad when I had to keep them (or, when I was younger, when my parents kept them for me.)

Geek Answer Syndrome: Would, uh, perhaps if you told us another "day in the life of" story for the next day or so, with emphasis on the food bits, would that maybe be helpful? Then you can just extract the relevant bits for the doctor. (And if you want to document how many low-energy days she seems to be having, that way you're talking about how much she's playing/sleeping/etc. as well.) I mean, that way it's just note-taking for telling us imaginary Internet people about your days, not just "one teaspoon of broccoli oh God they are going to look at this and think that I am the Worst Parent Ever."

Tomorrow I am going to disembowel some pumpkins. I wonder where I put the patterns...

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. That really sounds rough. I'd definitely encourage the anemia test (do they do one standard at 18 months anyway?)

Have you tried ignoring Alex while she eats? I mean, give her food and then remove audience... like turn your back and eat your dinner while she eats hers. I find that Grey eats the most when he's not interacting with me. (Apologies if that's totally not helfpul.)

I'm sorry you had such a tough night.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Have you tried ignoring Alex while she eats? I mean, give her food and then remove audience... like turn your back and eat your dinner while she eats hers. I find that Grey eats the most when he's not interacting with me.

She certainly eats better when we're not hovering over her watching every bite, yeah.

Usually we eat as a family, and Michael and I mostly talk to each other. (This was Michael's gaming night, and so he wasn't with us at the table.) I have noticed that, since we started doing family meals instead of feeding her first and then having our meal after she was asleep, she's been eating more food.

Sometimes she eats large amounts of food. Sometimes she eats almost nothing, and I manage to control my reaction to it. This was not either one of those kinds of nights.

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. You had a tough night. I hope that tomorrow is easier, and I'm thinking of you.

[erisian-fields.livejournal.com]

My middle child (now 13) has always had "feast or famine" days. She would go for three days without consuming anything other than juice. Then she'd eat like a longshoreman for a while and pack in more food than the adults. When she was 6 or 7, she ate HALF of an 18 pound turkey on Thanksgiving. She's put away entire large delivery pizzas by herself.

She does it a lot less now, but she does still go days when she eats very little and other days she eats tons. It's just her.

I had to defend her eating habits constantly when she was little. Both sets of her grandparents got on my case about it--my parents because they didn't think she should be the one in charge, the other set because she was a skinny toddler and kid and they thought she needed to eat more. She's 5'6" now and weighs 112lbs or so. She's healthy and gorgeous.

If you make things a game...

[(Anonymous)]

toddlers want to win.

And there's no telling what they're going to decide the game is, either. (in this particular case, it looks a lot like she's figuring out that food is a behavior lever for making parents do what she wants.)

One of the things my sister found out is that small children may have no reliable idea that thus-and-such a sensation means that they're hungry, and that a big time gap between hunger-sensation activities (coming down from exercise, waking up) could lead to a pretty comprehensive disconnection and disinterest in food (despite being low-blood-sugar cranky).

If the primary driver of eating behavior is social -- family meals -- you get those days when the toddler doesn't care what the grownups are doing, their own bright corner of the universe is holding all their attention.

And Alex knows there's something serious going on, she couldn't not. There is no controlling strong reactions so that they're invisible to your small child; there's controlling them so that you don't act on them, or so there is no clear signal to the toddler, but the kid will know something's up. Tons of selection pressure about that.

Rather than trying to do some sort of Zen dis-interest in Alex's food intake, are you sufficiently petless to do something like leaving food out? Bowls of nuts, and like that? Take some from them yourself, and see if she starts connecting being hungry with eating?

-- Graydon

[geekymary.livejournal.com]

I've been there. I know it sucks. You're reacting out of worry and frustration because you, you know, care. a lot.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Thanks. This actually made me tear up a little.

And I love the icon.

[ratphooey.livejournal.com]

Try not to think of the food diary, or Alex's progress, as something you're going to be judged by. The diary is simply a tool to help you work with the doctor to improve Alex's diet. If it even needs to be improved - you said yourself you have no idea how much she weighs.

However, if she's anemic, that needs to be addressed. It's not about blame. Everyone knows that it's impossible to make a toddler eat anything they don't want to eat.

However, there are ways to sneak extra calories into food - my friend devilduck has preemie twins, so I'm sure she can offer lots of that sort of advice should you need it.

[norah.livejournal.com]

There's nothing quite so frustrating as when they won't do something (or fight doing something) you know they need to do for their own health/safety. And food is just such a crazy emotional trigger, at least I find it so - I mean, for the first however many months, the bulk of our Job As Parents is just to feed them...

I'm sorry. And I know the Bad Mama feeling all too intimately, and I sympathize.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

And food is just such a crazy emotional trigger, at least I find it so - I mean, for the first however many months, the bulk of our Job As Parents is just to feed them...

Uh, yeah. That.

I'm not sure how long you've been reading my journal, but Alex had horrendous feeding problems as a newborn, including weight loss and failure to thrive and having to stop nursing and introduce the dreaded evil formula instead, so I have quite a bit of experience at being a failure at feeding her.

(Yes, I know how stupid and crazy that is. And most of the time I don't even feel a little bit that way, anymore. Except when I do.)

[norah.livejournal.com]

It's exactly as stupid and crazy as any of the other wild emotional reactions the wee critters engender - which is to say, not really. Logic ain't always a factor with this stuff, which is something that surprises and dismays previously-rational me again and again.

(As for how long I've been reading your journal, off and on for years - we went to undergrad together, and you left a comment once on my now-defunct Other LJ, but I didn't hear from you again. Still, I hopped in now and then, and have finally friended you recently after realizing that you are One With Whom It Is Safe To Mix Fandom And RL.)

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

Herm. And darlin', that's what upsets me so much about some of the anti-formula brigade.

I'm not a psychologist, and probably won't even start trying to be one next year (maybe the year after), but I don't think anything really works for teaching and training except happiness, either now, or seen in the future. If you're driven by guilt, driven by fear, driven by shame, driven by pain, etc., you do whatever the minimum is that you need to do to *stop* those negative feelings. If you're driven by happiness and a desire to do something, you're more engaged, more aware, and more productive.

More importantly, no amount of guilt, stress, or sorrow is going to make a mom express more milk, or make a baby latch on better, or suck more productively.

And I'm babbling again, aren't I? Sorry about that.

[fourgates.livejournal.com]

Going with the theory that feeding kids what they want will generally be OK, the problem is clear: Alex isn't getting enough coffee.

Seriously, I can see how keeping a food diary might feel like the more painful way of documenting failure. But you're doing the right thing.

Being 99th-percentile thin all my life, I'm still perplexed by how my appetite is so strongly internally determined. Frequently I'd just rather not bothering to eat if I don't really need to. I hate it when people try to acribe other causes to this trend, though, so part of me wants you to put on your parent armor and defend her right to be on the left side of curve if that is how it's going to work out. Even if it's just for a few months, which seems likely.

[tammylc.livejournal.com]

I have heard that it is quite typical for toddlers to get the majority of their nutrition for the day by lunchtime - it's not at all unusual for them to not want to eat at dinner.

Liam has always been a big eater, so this isn't a challenge we've had. Quite the contrary - with Eric and I both being overweight, I worry that he eats too much, or too much of the wrong foods.

Trust your mama instincts - if you're worried that something is wrong, definitely get it checked out. (I have more than once known Liam had an ear infection about 1 day before the doctor could actually see it.)

[aquaeri.livejournal.com]

I'm not a parent, so I have no advice to offer. This sounds tough to deal with, but I can't possibly see how you're a bad parent because your child chooses to eat one bite of chicken and one bite of broccoli.

[ex-serenejo.livejournal.com]

As the child of someone who was insane around food (and still is), I just want to say I wish she had half your caring and self-awareness. A quarter. A *tenth*. My mom never gave up trying to shove food down our throats, even after it was determined that my brother wouldn't because he had a serious tonsil/adenoid problem that should have been diagnosed years earlier, and would have if she'd mentioned it to his pediatrician rather than using force, browbeating, etc., to make him eat.

You rock. You are a really good parent.

[iamjw.livejournal.com]

Food issues and toddlers. The one thing guaranteed to bring every parent together as one.

My nephew once went a period of at least three weeks, perhaps more, eating nothing but peanut butter sandwiches. Until his mother gave in and bought tons of peanut butter. Then he wouldn't touch the stuff. Had massive screaming fits every time peanut butter came anywhere near him.

Not much of a point to this, really, other than to share a funny-ish story and point out that he grew into a strapping young man with a perfectly normal appetite.

That being said, putting stuff down in writing is always scary, but I guarantee you that the pediatrician has seen every type of eating pattern possible and will be able to tell you either that nothing's wrong and she's doing fine or start a process to make sure she's all right and give you a name to put to your fears. I don't know about you but I find naming the fears makes them much easier to deal with. The name allows me to find practical things to do rather than just flailing in the dark.

And you're a wonderful mother. Just, you know, in case you were wondering.

[kip-w.livejournal.com]

Well, FWIW, sometimes Sarah eats so little, I'm convinced she just draws energy directly through the air. From us.

The "elephant" sounds like a good idea. Sarah used to take a tiny cup of water at bedtime, and after I asked her one time if she wanted purple water (which looks just like regular water), she enjoyed asking for green water or pink water or whatever. It just reminded me, that's all.

Here's to strength, and patience, and all that stuff.

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

Trust your instincts. Mama knows best, and if your doctor pooh poohs you, check with somebody else.

I hear you on the "failure to feed" issue. Ever since Henry lost 1.5 lbs in the first 3 weeks of my pregnancy, I feel like I just might starve them.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

You are a very, very good mother. Hear that.

The food diary is making you crazy. I don't think it *does* make sense to do it before the visit -- did anybody in the doctor's office suggest it? If the doctor asks for one when you get there, explain the problems it causes and ask if there's another way to achieve the same result. This one is tripping too many triggers for both of you.

Parenthood is hard.

[juthwara.livejournal.com]

Oh, that sounds like a difficult evening - I hope tomorrow goes better.

I suspect the reason you can't disengage from this is the same reason I can't: because every time K decides to have a day where she subsists on air and orneriness, I go right back to when she was two months old and I spent hours dancing her around in the sling, trying to convince her to take more than three or four sucks of the bottle at a time. Not being able to feed your baby isn't an experience that leaves you quickly. I spent a lot of this summer fighting the urge to find excuses to take K to the doctor so she could get weighed.

I was able to relax a lot after K's 15 month checkup, when she had gained over a pound since her 12 month visit. I hope Alex's appointment gives you similar good news.

[ranunculus.livejournal.com]

Way back in the 50's my mother was told by the physician that I was underweight. Like Alex, I have always eaten lots sometimes and little other times. Mom sensibly refused to attempt to shovel food into me (I was her third). I turned out fine.
On the other hand, I think you are being a great Mom, and if you think she is less active and more sluggish, then that -is- a concern.

[ink-monkey.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know how useful this is going to be, but my brother had to take iron supplements all through preschool and grade school, and my mother gave them to him ground up in chocolate pudding. If it does turn out she needs supplements, it's a fairly easy way to get them into her.

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

My younger son also goes through periods when he seems to exist on air (we joke that he photosynthesises), so I sympathise. Even when he eats, he generally has days when he will only eat carbs and days when he will only eat protein - rarely both on the same day, and almost never both at the same meal. Obviously if there is a developing medical problem beyond the not-eating itself, it will need to be dealt with in some way, and that's beyond my expertise. All I can say is that whatever the solution is, it needs to be one where food doesn't give Alex power over you, because that poisons the parental relationship and the child's relationship with food. (I know you know that, but sometimes it helps for people to say these things anyway.) A book that I've found tremendously helpful is Preventing Childhood Eating Problems by Jane Hirschmann and Lela Zaphiropoulos. It has chapters corresponding to different age groups. I didn't read the ones for the very youngest ages too closely, because my kids were at school by the time I got it, but it might be worth a look.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

All I can say is that whatever the solution is, it needs to be one where food doesn't give Alex power over you, because that poisons the parental relationship and the child's relationship with food.

You're so right, and this is such a clear way of putting it. Thanks.

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

maybe if you stopped rewarding her for not eating? I realize that you need her to eat, but when she's hungry enough she will. In between, she gets lots and lots of attention and control over mommy/a chance to push the envelope every time you try to get her to eat.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's got something to do with her not eating.

Me, I'd withhold stimulation until she eats - no tv, no toys. You can't make her eat, but she doesn't get distractions and privileges when she's not eating.

This is not a limit you want to let go.

[journeywoman.livejournal.com]

I know with Evan, the more I want him to do something, the more he enjoys not doing it. As for yelling, I've had more episodes of that than I like to admit. It was really bad between 18-20 months, I think, but now I hardly ever get that frustrated at him, even though he's definitely moved into the terrible twos.

I know perfectly well that yelling doesn't help, but he pushes my buttons and I'm off to the races. At least your frustration is born from a noble cause: you're worried about her weight and health. My frustration is born only from my unreasonable expectation that he act like a rational being.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

It was really bad between 18-20 months, I think,

Really? Then maybe it's not me. I was having so much fun a couple of months ago, but now I feel like she's developed a whole new repertoire of provoking behaviors, and my fuse has gotten very short indeed.

I will try suggesting to myself that it's the age, and that this too shall pass.

[beckyzoole.livejournal.com]

I like that idea of simply doing a couple of "A Day of a Toddler" write-ups, and pulling food intake and energy expenditure from that. Much, much less emotionally meaningful than a food diary!

But, please, remember that if she were truly not getting enough calories, then she'd be really hungry. And if she were hungry then she'd eat. But she didn't, so she isn't, so she is. QED

[richtermom.livejournal.com]

Wow, she's 18 months old already? Time flies! Squeaky's almost 3 now.

Just because it's happening at our house, and it might be happening there: Is there a chance that you're both starting colds? Low appetite and for me irritability seem to show up before post nasal drip. I've just been REALLY tired lately and Squeaky has been just really CREATIVE. Not in the college application way, either, but in the "how can I infuriate Mom?" way. And she's barely eating.

I know, it doesn't help if the appointment is looming. All the other posts make better suggestions, but from the house of a snotmonster and low grade fever mom, maybe you could reschedule for one week later to back away from the stress factor?

[bosssio.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I feel your pain. Ant is really hot and cold about food and he is very thin for his age/height. Now, he isn't a picky eater, he just doesn't like to eat big quantities.

He eats more when there is more food around - he is a grazer as are most kids this age. I learned this when we had a party with a big buffet. He ate more in one day than he had in previous weeks. - mainly because he controlled what he ate and when. We pushed the cookies, potato chips, etc into the middle of the table and kept the healthier options within his reach.

When I am really concerned about him eating, I'll pull out a mix of different things, put 'em on a plate and leave them on the coffee table near the TV. It will take over an hour, but generally he eats about 1/2 the food. I will also help myself too - I find if I eat something first, that increases his interest. He also likes "feeding me".

And drop the food diary if it is making you crazy. No need to make yourself crazy for no real benefit - if the increased attention from you on her eating is making her rebel (normal at this age) you are getting skewed results anyway.

Hope this helps.

[ailbhe]

Oh wow. I have a whole stack of suggestions but not even a teeny tiny solution. I know kids who don't eat and it doesn't matter, and ones who don't eat and end up tube-fed.

All you can do is offer a selection of nutritious food and make it tempting. That's it. My eldest sister resorted to sugar-laden dairy things to get calories in her kids (it helped one, not the other). Linnea can go days without a proper meal and just get even bigger all the time. She has no personal food issues, is a decent cook, isn't uptight at all, and had similar feeding issues to yours in her first's infancy (though, well, much much worse - hence tube).

So I offer sympathy, and if you want my list of things to try, let me know.

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

Ouch... I can sympathize, because I know how hard it is to relax, even when I realize my own emotional state is part of the cause of my problems.

(Um. Stop reading here if me offering advice - because, what else can I do? Offer a huge from 3000 miles away? - would bug you.)

Does it work for you to take some time to specifically relax/meditate/whatever? Sometimes breaking the thought chain completely helps me when I'm in that state. (That, and doing whatever is necessary to alleviate the physical symptoms of being emotionally overwrought... exercise for the too-hyped feeling, or whatever.)

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

I'll prtend that was supposed to read "offer a huge hug from 3000 miles away", but for some reason, when I type hug, my fingers don't want to stop. Sigh.

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

In that I am not a parent or a medical professional, please feel free to utterly disregard this comment. My Mom once told me that my pediatrician told her that it didn't so much matter what or how much I ate on any given day; that it would balance out over the course of a week or so.


Unaskedfor advice notwithstanding, I hope this resolves quickly and in a way that doesn't make you crazy (in the non-technical sense of the word). I like you and Misha lots, look forward to meeting Alex eventually, and want things to be well for you.

[baratron.livejournal.com]

I can only offer *hugs*.