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rivkaSeveral times in the last two months, we've gotten a call from the woman who rents the studio apartment beneath our house, asking us to keep Alex quieter because she is sleeping. It particularly bothers her when Alex runs back and forth along our main room, or when Alex has a friend over and they're running around together. Each time, we have taken Alex outside or blocked her in so that she can't run around.
All of these complaints have happened after 9:30am, and usually much later. Today, for example, she called at 10:30. I ran into her outside later, and finally asked what her work and sleep schedules are. She said that she works from 3:30pm to midnight, and "the earliest I'm ever awake is 11:30."
My question is this: when someone works a late shift, is it reasonable for them to expect their neighbors to keep nighttime-style quiet levels during the day? So far we have responded as though it is, and I do have sympathy for her need to sleep. But I am also starting to feel annoyed about it.
Morning is the biggest part of Alex's day - in the afternoon, there's often less than two hours between the post-nap snack and dinner preparation. Morning is when kids her age socialize. If we're supposed to be quiet until at least after 11:30, that means never being able to host playgroup. "Active play belongs outside" is a hard rule to enforce with a toddler - they tend to be active all day long, or to switch back and forth between quiet and active play in short bursts, and they need to be active even when the weather is too bad to play outside. We do go out a lot - the children's museum, the science center, the library, (if weather will ever permit it again) the park, and just for long get-out-of-the-house walks in the neighborhood. But we can't always go out all morning long.
The rest of our house is not really set up for playing. Alex's room is on the third floor, at the top of an extremely steep and dangerous flight of steps. It doesn't have much floor space, and we don't keep any of her toys up there - it's just for sleeping. The second floor has our bedroom and study, which are cluttered with furniture, cords and cables, and a million things she's not supposed to mess with. Our indoor play space is pretty much the living-dining room, period. (We have a back courtyard for outdoor play space, but I know from bitter experience that sound travels very well from the basement apartment to the courtyard, and presumably vice versa.)
So: should we require Alex to be sedentary whenever she's indoors before lunchtime? Or is our neighbor expecting too much? I'm looking for honest opinions here, and not just back patting, because I fully recognize that my prior experience with this neighbor is coloring my view of the situation. I just keep thinking, "She's got a lot of damn gall, to be complaining to us about noise."
All of these complaints have happened after 9:30am, and usually much later. Today, for example, she called at 10:30. I ran into her outside later, and finally asked what her work and sleep schedules are. She said that she works from 3:30pm to midnight, and "the earliest I'm ever awake is 11:30."
My question is this: when someone works a late shift, is it reasonable for them to expect their neighbors to keep nighttime-style quiet levels during the day? So far we have responded as though it is, and I do have sympathy for her need to sleep. But I am also starting to feel annoyed about it.
Morning is the biggest part of Alex's day - in the afternoon, there's often less than two hours between the post-nap snack and dinner preparation. Morning is when kids her age socialize. If we're supposed to be quiet until at least after 11:30, that means never being able to host playgroup. "Active play belongs outside" is a hard rule to enforce with a toddler - they tend to be active all day long, or to switch back and forth between quiet and active play in short bursts, and they need to be active even when the weather is too bad to play outside. We do go out a lot - the children's museum, the science center, the library, (if weather will ever permit it again) the park, and just for long get-out-of-the-house walks in the neighborhood. But we can't always go out all morning long.
The rest of our house is not really set up for playing. Alex's room is on the third floor, at the top of an extremely steep and dangerous flight of steps. It doesn't have much floor space, and we don't keep any of her toys up there - it's just for sleeping. The second floor has our bedroom and study, which are cluttered with furniture, cords and cables, and a million things she's not supposed to mess with. Our indoor play space is pretty much the living-dining room, period. (We have a back courtyard for outdoor play space, but I know from bitter experience that sound travels very well from the basement apartment to the courtyard, and presumably vice versa.)
So: should we require Alex to be sedentary whenever she's indoors before lunchtime? Or is our neighbor expecting too much? I'm looking for honest opinions here, and not just back patting, because I fully recognize that my prior experience with this neighbor is coloring my view of the situation. I just keep thinking, "She's got a lot of damn gall, to be complaining to us about noise."
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no subject
Date: 2007-02-22 08:25 am (UTC)If I had my magic wand, this is how things would work.
Yard work (lawnmowers and leafblowers) would be banned before 10am, because they cause so much disruptive noise to many many people over a wide are all at once (well, leafblowers would just implode, because they are Evil and Filthy, but nevermind that). The same for road construction and external home repair/construction. We are not a 9-5 society any more (and really, never have been... it's just that the swing and third shifts were mostly Unwashed Masses until the past few decades).
Inside a building, neighbors would take care to keep noise down in shared spaces all the time. I no more appreciate someone stopping in the hall, in front of my door (I own a condo) to yak loudly with their friend at noon than I do at midnight, or 6am or pm. Noisy work on shared spaces would be after 10am, with notice.
Inside an individual unit... now here is where it is tricky. About 6 months ago, the owner of the unit next to mine, that adjoins my bedroom wall, decided to renovate it. How did I learn this? Someone pounding things into the wall three inches from the top of my sleeping head, at 815am, when I'd gone to bed at 3am as per usual.
I complained to my building manager and was told "the law allows them to start work at 8am." Well, there is what the law compels, and what the law allows. One is not obligated to pound on shared walls at 8am just because one can. And, what is so difficult about sending one's neighbors a note the week prior saying "we are planning to renovate the unit adjoining yours. We expect it will take X number of days and work will take place from Xtime to Xtime. If you have any concerns, please contact us at XXX-XXXX and we will be glad to try to work out a compromise between your needs and ours."
Is that absurd, to think that should happen? This is the basic courtesy toward neighbors I try and instill in my alcoholic, partying college students, and yet full-grown adults seemed meanly convinced that if something is legal, they may do it with no care for others even if it is discourteous.
As far as personal noise... well, my downstairs neighbor gets up early. I have gotten the impression that she would like it if I would not tread on my floor after 9pm. As I sometimes don't even get HOME until 9pm, she is DENIED. I do not do things like vaccuum or move furniture or do jumping jacks on her head after 9pm, but we have old, creaky floors. That's just too bad. I never wear shoes in the house.
The guy upstairs from *me* is in his 60s or 70s and, I infer, has insomnia. I have heard him creaking the floor over my head at 3am, 7am, 3pm, all hours of the day and night. I have learned the fine art of clamping an extra pillow over my top ear with my upper arm to give myself quiet. He is allowed to move around his home. He is not allowed to play his TV, which sits on the floor, so loudly that I can tell he is watching the CBS Nightly News even if it is on at 6pm. My neighbor to my left is allowed to watch the Super Bowl, but is not allowed to roar his approval so loudly that it echoes through our fireplaces (which back up on one another) and scare my cats (yes, I did go speak to him).
Now, I realize children are, among other things, both noisy and precious.
If I were your downstairs neighbor... I would *wish* that Alex would not play extended running or screaming games before 10am, but I would *expect* that sometimes there would be noise I could hear. I would not be too chuffed about a playgroup over my head at 8am (though I admit I have no idea how many kids might attend such a thing or what time it might happen). I would be somewhat mollified by a week's notice with a phone number attached for use if things got unbearable.
I would expect that I would need to take some noise-abating measures for myself. I would also expect that if, for example, the family upstairs had hardwood floors, it would not be unreasonable to ask them to buy or rent a rug to muffle sound.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-22 05:38 pm (UTC)Yeesh! I couldn't handle playgroup at 8 myself, even as one of the supervising parents. Our playgroup is nominally at 9:30, more usually at 10.
She used to work a different schedule, I know, because 6am used to be a prime time for us to hear them screaming profanities at each other. So it seems that she took an evening-shift job (in addition to renewing her lease) after she already knew that she was living downstairs from a toddler.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-23 12:19 am (UTC)