(no subject)

[rivka]

In recent days, I've pretty much made up my mind to support Barack Obama for President. I feel good about my choice. Except that now Will Shetterly's pro-Obama comments in this thread are seriously making me want to change my mind and vote for Clinton.

Does this say more about me, or about Will?

Comments

[redbird]

About Will, I think.

[ckd]

I also think the answer is "Will".

I would also like to observe that there is no cause so good and noble that it doesn't have any supporters who are idiots/trolls/single-minded rant-generators/etc.

[telerib.livejournal.com]

Bwah! Obsidian Wings!

I keep forgetting that it didn't stop when Moe's involvement in it stopped. That name conjures up memories of so much Internet Drama.

[curiousangel.livejournal.com]

Unless someone has done some cleaning up of various back-end things over there (which I doubt, as several of my suggestions are still listed on the blogroll), I've actually still got posting-level access over there. I'm not certain that I remember my login name and password, but wouldn't that be funny as hell if I took the opportunity to start posting again after lo these many years?

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm not spotting what specifically you're objecting to in his comments. There are quite a few of them -- or is it the quantity and persistence that you're objecting to?

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I guess that was a little cryptic. It's the supremely patronizing exchange he's having with Susan, exemplified by:

"I'm becoming increasingly baffled by Clinton supporters, since Clinton and Obama are equally good on gender and race. If electing a Democrat in 2008 is your priority, he's the one to support now. Does Clinton have a strength that I'm missing, or is it simply that a lot of Democrats continue to be swayed by the Clinton advantage in the DLC?"

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

I thought everything was class conflict to Will?

I think it is an error to allow comments by him to affect your decision about anything one way or the other, except perhaps whether or not to buy one of his books and even there I could make an argument that in general, public personae should not affect one's views of the person's books.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I really like his books. At least, so far. (I think the last one I read was Chimera, so I'm sure I'm a ways behind.)

On rare occasions I have decided never to read an author's books based on his public presentation. Steve Stirling, for example. I think the rasff post that tipped me over the edge was the one where he sneered at the stupid modern notion that children need affection, but there are so many possibilities.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. Here (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.written/browse_thread/thread/397fb3af9a460d9b/0e2ef78780e5e1b9?hl=en&q=children+group%3Arec.arts.sf.*+author%3Ajoatsimeon%40aol.com&lnk=nl&) and here (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.written/browse_thread/thread/397fb3af9a460d9b/680f700b9c7782d4?hl=en&lnk=st&q=children+group%3Arec.arts.sf.*+author%3Ajoatsimeon%40aol.com#680f700b9c7782d4).

[jinian.livejournal.com]

And he turned out JUST FINE! Was he trying to make me laugh my ass off?

[rivka.livejournal.com]

It is a sobering thought to realize that, if I left off all the gooey "affection" nonsense, Alex might grow up to turn out as fine as Steve Stirling.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

I think I must have a tin ear, because I am, in all sincerity, not spotting the patronizing part. If you feel like elaborating on that, I'm interested to understand.

[moeticae.livejournal.com]

Tone sounded about right for an Obama missionary. You should see them try to convert us evil Republicans, btw: it's a serious hoot. I'm not saying that they can't answer a single policy question without telling us to read the man's website, but I'm also not saying that they can, either. :)

[papersky.livejournal.com]

To paraphrase pnh, Will Shetterly could persuade Eskimos to move to the Equator by explaining to them patronizingly how wonderful snow is.

[kate_nepveu]

If only this power could be harnessed for good somehow!

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Does Ralph Nader need a campaign manager?

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

Not reading the post in question, but just the comments here (I have to head out of the door soon) it reminds me a little about your post about the congregationalist church...

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Will. He's one of those people who, if I agree with him, I start re-checking my assumptions.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

There is an old saying to the effect that no cause is so noble that it cannot have a fool for a follower. In this case the fool is Will Shetterly, not you.

[(Anonymous)]

It's probably more fruitful to parse this speech by Obama and decide which is the real Obama and which is just "saying the correct thing." As for me, my discomfort with government support for faith-based organizations would be enough to turn me away from him.

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/

Grandma Susan

OT- but a comment

[bosssio.livejournal.com]

As for me, my discomfort with government support for faith-based organizations would be enough to turn me away from him.

you know, I am confused by the whole "faith based organization" thing. I work in international development which is DOMINATED (and has been LONG before this administration) by various religious organizations. Save the Children, CRS, World Vision, etc etc. Hell, I went to a child survival conference in 1999 - funded by USAID - and the evangelicals were out in force, talking about how they saw their mission to save the African babies for Christ.

Now, this was NOT part of the official agenda and the USAID staff were pretty darn uncomfortable about the religious discussion (which took place during unofficial sessions), but the makeup of the audience still created an overwhelming atmosphere. I felt like I'd be lynched if I admitted I was an atheist.

So I never really saw what the difference was with the Bush administration. 'Course, the big difference we saw was the whole ban on working with sex workers/prostitution support groups (since there really aren't any pro-prostitution groups, just those who are in favor of legalization)

Sorry, back to the topic

[(Anonymous)]

Obama's supporters on that thread (PNH, Will, Bruce) are doing a great job of turning me off Obama. I really was on the fence two days ago.

Susan
(the one having the exchange with Will)

[wanderingaengus.livejournal.com]

I've been voting for Obama since he was my state legislator, and I hope to do so again in November, but I understand why people are getting creeped out by the smugness of some of his supporters. He's no more the messiah than Hillary is a cyborg. Why must our national politics be such a cartoon?

[wanderingaengus.livejournal.com]

Thinking of somebody as a messiah is a personal, subjective problem, that's not really relevant to a political debate. Being perceived as thinking of somebody as a messiah is an objective political problem that must be addressed. Each candidate has bigger problems, but, oddly enough, they share the problem of needing to remind people that they're human.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

There's definite testiness from Patrick, in some of his comments, but I don't see where he's engaging in offensive levels of Obamarama. I found his original post quite persuasive - so he's having the opposite effect on me as Will is.

From my perspective, the Democrats are in a great position: we've got two good candidates to choose from, either of whom would do a fine job. I've got a definite preference, but - like most people, I think - I am in the happy situation of knowing that I'll be able to throw my full energy behind whoever gets the nomination. So I don't feel particularly called to sway the opinions of Clinton supporters.

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

Will. He always posts with that tone, no matter the subject.