(no subject)

[rivka]

I don't know that I have anything profound to say about it, but I wanted to copy and preserve this bit from a sermon by my friend the Rev. Lyn Cox.

One of my professors in seminary, Rosemary Chinnici, told us that we come to a time when we realize the faith we have inherited is inadequate for what we are facing. She called this religious impasse. I don’t think she meant that everyone changes religious affiliation when hitting a rough spot, I think she meant that we have to change how we relate to our faith.

Another of my professors, Rebecca Parker, writes what she learned from Professor Chinnici about running into religious impasse. “[A]t such moments we have three choices: We can hold to our religious beliefs and deny our experience, we can hold our experience and walk away from our religious tradition, or we can become theologians.” Parker and Chinnici both recommend the third option.

I worry most about people who make the first choice, both for the sake of the effects it has on them and for the sake of the people around them, whose experience they must often loudly deny as well. I remember the woman who came onto a miscarriage support board to share a story about her near-certain miscarriage which was miraculously stopped by prayer - complete with quoted testimony from the Christian ER doctor, who said it had happened in many other cases that he had seen. It never occurred to her, I guess, to follow her particular version of faith all the way through to the end and see what it implied about every other woman on the board.

I know plenty of the second kind of person as well, of course, people who were once taught a cardboard set of beliefs and found that they didn't hold up very well to the weather. I don't worry about most of them. I may find it annoying to listen to the ones who say that they're atheists because it's stupid to believe in an old white man in a long nightgown sitting up on a cloud somewhere and peering into people's bedrooms with disapproval, but they're entitled to exclude the middle if they want to, and most people who have walked away from their religious traditions are more thoughtful than that anyway.

In Unitarian-Universalist churches, and I'd guess probably among some Pagan groups and other minority religions-of-choice as well, people of the second kind can pose a problem for the spiritual life of the community as a whole. What they want from religion is Not-Christianity, and it's hard to define something positive solely in terms of what it isn't.

I think the third option, "becoming a theologian," is what people are sneering at when they talk about "cafeteria Catholics" or make fun of people who pick and choose what parts of the Bible to believe. That's supposed to be taking the easy way out, but in my experience it's a hell of a lot more complicated and difficult to work things out for yourself.

Okay, I'm rambling. I'm tempted to just delete everything here but the quote, but I'll go ahead and post it. And then I'm going to bed.

Comments

my tradition is the via media.

[txanne.livejournal.com]

Yep. When I did the "Bible in 90 Days" class, I found myself thinking, "God did not inspire this part," or "This has surely been mistranslated, probably on purpose," and other similar heretical things. But it's so obvious to me that God gave us brains and free will because we're supposed to *use* them! It's scary, but ignoring my experience would mean that I had succumbed to my fear, and that's...not how I want to approach the Divine.

(also rambling and going to bed)

[amaebi.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you didn't delete it before I was pointed to it. Very nice, I agree, and thanks.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

One of the challenges of liberal churches is to support people who describe themselves as wounded by religion or as "recovering [Catholics], as well as people who have more positive history with certain doctrines, rituals, or beliefs, so that the conflicts and disagreements aren't varnished over but are treated in such a way that everyone can learn.

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

I thought it was an interesting read. Thank you.

[acceberskoorb.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting this.

[mizchalmers.livejournal.com]

I really needed to hear this. Hopelessness is just another way of saying crisis of faith...

[olamina.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the quote. I occasionally went to church as a child but my parents were not particularly religious at all. Later on I dabbled with other non-Christian religions and then found my self back in a Christian church, albeit a progressive Christian church that didn't push. Recently I have found even some of my beliefs tested, and I think I am so much the better for it. I am wary of religious faith that hasn't "gone through the fire". If people are waving the flag and it isn't a little tattered and worst for wear.....well I dunno.

[kiya]

In Unitarian-Universalist churches, and I'd guess probably among some Pagan groups and other minority religions-of-choice as well, people of the second kind can pose a problem for the spiritual life of the community as a whole. What they want from religion is Not-Christianity, and it's hard to define something positive solely in terms of what it isn't.

I summarise my experience of people like this with, "Some people have to hate their ex to explain a breakup."

[jenett]

What <lj user="lilairen" said. As usual. You're right, Rivka, that they can be disruptive in community when they're busy being Not-Whatever so intensely that they're not becoming something else. My usual approach in person is to wander off and not investing tons of time until they're past that stage (which often happens, but it also often takes a couple of years.)

[marici.livejournal.com]

Yeah, right on the UU boat with you (and atheist who enjoys theology), but it mystifies me that cleaving to the spirit of your faith and rejecting that which seems petty corruption of divine love is being _false_. And the same people who sneer so often feel free to reject charity, forgiveness, and compassion by their own words.

[ailbhe]

One of the things I like about our Quaker bunch is that they don't ask questions about what people believe. It's obvious, from what people have said, that most people there believe in some sort of God-ness, and that people see it in different ways, ranging from the ineffable divine in every living thing to the great big grandpa in the sky. Community creation is a completely central part of it, which is emphatically not true of my experience of Roman Catholic and Anglo-Catholic churches.

(I get really, really angry with people who claim that prayer or God rescues holy people and that by implication the people who aren't rescued are somehow less valuable or worthy. And with people who say "Ah well, to avoid [this disaster] you should have [done something now impossible without a time machine].)

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

it's a hell of a lot more complicated and difficult to work things out for yourself.

This. Yes.

(Been in that debate/on the brunt end of the accusation more than once...)

[fiction-theory.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you posted this, because I'm in a time in my life where I'm questioning what I believe, who I am spiritually, and what I should do. And it's comforting to see someone talk about these kinds of things with rationality and what not. I found that quote very helpful indeed, because I feel that's exactly what I'm becoming.

Do you mind if I link to this on my personal LJ?

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Do you mind if I link to this on my personal LJ?

Of course not! And you might want to click through and read Lyn's whole sermon, if you haven't already.

Amateur theologians unite, you have nothing to lose but your "scripture"

[going-not-gone.livejournal.com]

I've long felt that many organized religions (esp. the more fundamental varieties, and I'm not just talking Christian) enable a particular sort of intellectual/ethical laziness. The appeal is that once you join up, you no longer have to make ethical or moral decisions all on your own, you no longer have to think through your beliefs and your experiences and determine right from wrong. You just look it up in The Big Book of God-Sez and then you know what you are supposed to think, and then you don't have to worry about it any more.

When it comes to difficult, important questions, I would much rather trust my own judgment and make my own mistakes than play Follow The Leader. Too many Leaders I've seen have an agenda of narrow self-interest, or worse, of hate.

Re: Amateur theologians unite, you have nothing to lose but your "scripture"

[aquaeri.livejournal.com]

I agree with and want to marry this comment, and I'm also a little in love with your icon.

[bosssio.livejournal.com]

I find the three choices very pat. Either reject direct experience or reject family experience or the clearly superior intellectual middle path...

I agree with you that many UU congregations are filled with people who are not-Christians. I personally see this as a major challenge of UU's non-creedal approach - what are we? Are we Christians? kinda, sometimes. Are we atheists/agnostics? Kinda, sometimes. Are we pagans, buddists, jews, etc etc? Well, kinda.

We in many ways have fundamentally redefined religion to be something very very different than Christianity and other monotheistic beliefs, even if one is able believe in the divinity of Christ and be a UU.

Most religions do not allow for full freedom of spiritual exploration. There are VERY clear litmus tests - if you don't believe in y or z, you cannot call yourself an x (or at least not one in good standing). this has lead to the good ole protestant tradition of church shopping. Don't agree with what is being said in the pulpit? Keep going down the road, there will be another church more to your liking elsewhere.

This is the context of religious exploration in this country. But keep something in mind - UUs who believe in Christ as their savior have MANY options other than UU - there are a number of liberal Christian churches out there. But atheists and agnostics have no other options if they want to belong to a religious tradition AND be open about their beliefs. So this is where the defensiveness comes from, I think. To finally feel like there is a home, but then see that home potentially threatened by people who have other options, and take those options rather lightly.

I actually wrote something about this for service on sunday (which I missed due to a migraine, but someone read it for me). I'll post it on my LJ.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I do understand why atheist/humanist UUs feel very protective of their religious safe space.

I think I didn't express myself clearly. I have absolutely no problem with people not wanting elements of Christianity to be incorporated into UU services, or wanting those elements to be restricted to alternative services (for example, Christmas Eve). In particular, I think that Christian worship and/or the idea of "salvation" are hugely problematic in a UU context, although Christian stories or ideas may be acceptable if they are placed in a larger context by surrounding commentary.

When I said "what they want from religion is Not-Christianity" I was talking about people who don't have a positive vision of Unitarian-Universalism or a positive understanding of their own spiritual path. People who know and declaim about what they don't believe and don't want from church, without giving much thought to what they do believe and do want from church. If our view of UU begins and ends with "we don't have a creed, we don't worship God, we don't believe in sin or hell," then we're defining ourselves by absence, not by presence. And I think that leads to a shallow church experience.

[bosssio.livejournal.com]

I was talking about people who don't have a positive vision of Unitarian-Universalism or a positive understanding of their own spiritual path. People who know and declaim about what they don't believe and don't want from church, without giving much thought to what they do believe and do want from church

Agreed - this is very similar to how I feel about the term Atheist. My beliefs are much more than a negation of someone else's belief system. In fact, the negation gives too much power to the belief it is negating...

However, part of the problem is that many UU members are afraid to talk about what they DO believe. The one thing many feel they have in common with others is that negation -that shared baggage they need to shed. But until we feel strong to talk about what we do believe, and feel that we have the security, the right, and the protection to state it out loud, it is very hard to build that positive community.

[lynsaurus.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Rivka, for posting this. I'm touched that you read the sermon.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I always read what you write. I can't wait to find out what a velociraptor signifies.

[tea-dragon.livejournal.com]

Great sermon! It's interesting to think about what it means to become a theologian. I think it's not just an academic exercise, something you study in school with lots of specialized books. It's the process of examining your beliefs for yourself and choosing what to hold on to, and realizing what no longer seems true to you. Then it's about discovering what new things you believe and trying to put it all together in a life-giving way. Maybe a UU congregation (and I'm guessing here from your descriptions) is a group of people all working on doing this together with no expectation of coming to the same conclusions? What a cool place to be!

My very wise pastor in Chicago talked with my husband and I about this. R. was a Buddhist and I was a Christian. He told me to help R. to be a better Buddhist and told him to help me be a better Christian; in other words, to encourage each other on our spiritual journeys without imposing our own views. Maybe Christians should help atheists be better atheists and vice versa? Like running into an impasse, a dialogue with someone who believes differently than you do can move both of you to a deeper understanding of your beliefs.

James Fowler wrote a description of the process whereby faith moves from a simple childhood belief to something much more nuanced and inclusive. If anyone wants something else to read, there's a synopsis here:

http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/fowler.htm

[aquaeri.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. It's useful and thoughtful, even to this life-long atheist (who is trying to figure out how to be a spiritual and religious atheist).