Oh. My. GOD.

[rivka]

We have to fire our nanny. We have to fire our nanny right now.

She's been great with Colin, but at the beginning of June when Alex started to come home at lunchtime to spend the afternoon with the nanny, there were immediate problems. Alex didn't like her. She cried when Michael dropped her off. She complained to me that Polly told lies. When I asked her for examples, she told me about something that was transparently a case of joking around. So I talked to Polly, in Alex's presence, about cutting out the joking until Alex knew her well enough to tell that she was kidding. But Alex still said she didn't like her.

We thought it was adjustment. We thought it was too many changes too quickly. We thought it was having to get used to Michael picking her up at school and then immediately dropping her off again instead of staying home to be with her. We weren't crazy about how Polly interacted with Alex in our presence, but it didn't seem actively objectionable.

We were wrong.

Yesterday afternoon Polly called me at work. She told me a rambling story about Alex's behavior: she had suggested they go to the park, Alex didn't want to, she persisted, Alex said she was being mean. I was nonplussed that an experienced nanny would call the mother about something like this, but I listened, and it was a good thing I did. Because in the course of her explanation of what she said to Alex and what Alex said to her, she came to this:

Polly: You made me feel sad when you said those things to me.
Alex: Well, you should treat others the way you want to be treated.
Polly: Where did you hear that?
Alex: In a book.
Polly: Well, you know, God doesn't like it when you say mean things to someone.

...

I listened to the rest of her story and then brought the topic back to God. I told her that she. Could. NEVER. Tell our child what God wouldn't like or what God would do. And she said, essentially, "okay, fine, now I know that's how you feel."

I came home and told Michael that we needed a new nanny. I simply didn't trust the judgment of someone who would think that was a good thing to say to a child. We decided that the best thing to do would be to line someone else up as quickly as possible and then give Polly abrupt notice and two weeks' severance pay. He called and left a message for the person who had been the runner-up for the job, in case she hadn't found anything better by now. And this morning I explained again, firmly, to Polly that she may never mention God in any kind of monitoring or punitive context. I walked her through the methods we use when Alex is difficult or oppositional. And they seemed to have gotten through the afternoon okay.

But tonight, Alex and I were pretending while I made dinner. I was the White Witch, evil Queen of Narnia, and Alex was my daughter and evil helper. I told her to go make a trap we could use to catch human children. And she told me,

"We can make it so the trap takes them to the devil!"

I froze. "Who's the devil?" I asked.

"He grabs bad boys and girls and sticks them in the fire," she told me.

"Where did you hear about the devil?" I asked as casually as possible.

"Polly told me."

"Did she tell you about him today or another day?"

"It was some other day."

After dinner we talked a little bit more about the devil. She asked me, "Have you ever been under the earth? Where he lives?"

"I've been under the earth," I told her. "I was in a cave. There was no devil there. The devil isn't real."

"Miss Polly got a phone call from him one time," she told me. "He asked her if she knew about any bad boys or girls."

"Were you there when she got the phone call?"

Alex nodded cheerfully.

I got out her copy of Magic School Bus Inside the Earth and showed her the picture we've often looked at together, a cross-section drawing of the earth. I showed her that from the outside in there is dirt and rocks, melted rock, solid rock, melted metal, solid metal. "Is there a devil anywhere that you can see?"

"No."

"The devil isn't real," I said. "He's something people made up to scare kids with."

"Why would people do that?"

"When Miss Polly told you that the devil put bad kids in the fire, were you being naughty?"

She considered. "I don't think so."

"Well, I think she told you about the devil because she wanted to scare you so you would do what she said. But she's wrong. There is no devil."

The only thing that keeps me from going completely crazy and causing physical harm to this woman is that Alex seems to have let her twisted theology roll right off her back. According to Polly, here's how the conversation about God continued:

Polly: Well, you know, God doesn't like it when you say mean things to someone.
Alex: Well, in ancient China the emperor was a Godlike person and he didn't talk to ordinary people.
Polly: That may be true in China, but here God talks to everybody.

And Alex reported to me about it later:

Me: Did you and Polly have a conversation about God today?
Alex: Yeah. There's a God up in heaven, and he talks to everybody.
Me: Oh, that's what Polly said, huh? What do you think?
Alex: I don't think there's a God like that.
Me: Yeah, me neither.

She seems to be putting Polly's God and devil on about the same level as trolls and ghosts. There doesn't seem to be any real resonance. But jesus, now I understand why she's been complaining so much about being left with Polly. I feel horrible for putting it down to "adjustment issues."

Tomorrow I'll call a professional nanny placement agency. And I'll see if Alex can go back to spending her afternoons at school. We may need to have Polly spend another day or two with Colin - or maybe I'll take him to work - but no freaking WAY will she ever spend one more minute with Alex. EVER.

Oh my God. I purely CANNOT BELIEVE this is happening. My poor kid.

Comments

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

. . . yeah. Not good.

[kate_nepveu]

I'd feel horrible too; I hate it when perfectly reasonable conclusions about SteelyKid's well-being turn out to be wrong. But I'm glad no lasting or serious harm seems to have been done.

[redbird23.livejournal.com]

It is stuff like this that makes me so very, very happy we found a good daycare that we are happy with, full of people we trust.

I've never seen or heard any mention of religion, which makes me happy. What a parent chooses is one thing. We go to a secular center for a reason.

[kcobweb.livejournal.com]

Sheesh. Yeah. Wow.

[kcobweb.livejournal.com]

galagan is reading this over my shoulder, and says that Alex is the awesomest kid ever and she'll be just fine. You don't have anything to worry about, despite the hostile indoctrination attempts.

[txanne.livejournal.com]

How horrible. I'm so glad you found out before Polly decided spanking was OK.

[zingerella.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm not okay with Polly's discipline tactics, but I think that it's taking things a bit far to state that this indicates that she'd be okay with spanking. It's a bit ad hominem, and, I think, unwarranted. The fact that a person has demonstrably wrongheaded and decidedly undesirable ideas about one thing does not mean they're ripe for other transgressions.

[bosssio.livejournal.com]

there is something in the air. Today, Daria basically put her foot down about how lesley is being treated at daycare (other kids are bullying her), and we are now exploring her joining our nanny share...

*shudder* yes, the desire to do physical harm is clearly rational in this case.

[bosssio.livejournal.com]

oh, and the crap that Polly is pulling with alex to make her behave? That is EXACTLY the kind of crap I heard come out of my grandmother's mouth growing up. "God is mad at you for being mean to me" "God will send you to HELL for not respecting me" "God is watching you all the time, and he only likes good children".

yeah. so freakin' wrong.

[bcholmes.livejournal.com]

Wow. That sounds very hard.

Um. Look, I don't want to be an ass, here, but your recent posts about postpartum anxiety suggested that sometimes you develop inaccurate perceptions of people.

I'm sure that's not the case, here, because you've talked things through with Michael, and you've said that the meds have really turned things around. And it sounds like there's nothing irrational about the conclusion -- it seems like a real conclusion based telling conversations with Alex.

But I just wanted to raise the point, on the one-in-a-million chance that you hadn't already thought through that.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Polly related the "God doesn't like it when you..." conversation to me herself. The parts we're getting secondhand from Alex only change the situation from "we need a new nanny" to "oh fuck we need a new nanny NOW."

[acceberskoorb.livejournal.com]

Holy Fuck!

Lots of kids get that kind of crap from grandparents and aunts and uncles and the like, I'm sure she'll be okay, but it must be especially difficult when it's someone you've hired.

You're doing an excellent job using it as a teaching moment. I'm so sorry you're needing to deal with all the troubles though. That sounds incredibly frustrating. If you need any extra Alex care, we're always very happy to pitch in!

[rivka.livejournal.com]

If you need any extra Alex care, we're always very happy to pitch in!

Thank you. That means a lot.

I am pretty sure that if I explain what the situation is, Alex's nursery school director will find an afternoon spot for her even if they are technically full up. If I'm wrong about that, we may be contacting you to ask if you could take her for an afternoon or two.

I am also planning to sit down with Alex tomorrow and talk with her about what to do when people tell her things that don't sound right. Obviously her first line of defense should be me and Michael, but is it okay if I tell her that you are also someone who can help her figure out what is real?

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

EEeeee.. Wow. I hope you find a really awesome replacement quickly. :(

[marydell.livejournal.com]

Leaving religion aside*, it sounds like Polly is in a battle of wills with a 4-year-old (um, 5? 6-year old?), to the point that she's resorting to outside authorities--you, God, the devil--and emotional blackmail in order to win. That doesn't make her a terrible person, but it does make her an immature one, and probably one who's incapable of ever establishing her own authority with Alex.

I'm so sorry that you have to go through the selection process all over again...at least you have someone in mind.

*so that I do not go off on a rant about Polly's massive fail on that front

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

Yikes! I'm glad Alex seems not to have let it affect her too much.

[redbird]

Oh, dear. Yes, time to fire her: not just her "scare the kid by talking about the devil" stuff, but that she explicitly said she wouldn't talk to Alex about God that way, and then went ahead and did it anyhow.

Good intentions or no, this isn't someone who you--or anyone who hired her--could trust to either follow reasonable instructions, or to say "I don't think that's a good idea."

[rivka.livejournal.com]

To be fair, when I asked Alex when Polly told her about the devil she said it wasn't today. So it probably was before I told her not to talk about God that way.

But I don't care what the parents have or haven't said about religion, pretending to take a phone call from the devil, who puts bad children into the fire, is so fucked up you can't even see "professional childcare standards" from there.

[ororo.livejournal.com]

Yi shit. I remember in your search, you were very clear about how you wanted your children interacted with. I am so sorrry you and Alex have had to deal with this. Good luck with the placement agency!

[laurent-atl.livejournal.com]

I wonder how my mother dealt with that sort of things. My brother and I grew up in rural northern France where there was no hope of finding a Nanny that would not come with a heavy catholic fire and brimstone baggage, yet I do not have any clear memory of being traumatized by exposure to that brand of theology, or of any conflict between my mother and the nanny.

I need to ask her.

[geekymary.livejournal.com]

She's going to meet idiots at some point. How awesome that she's handling it so well (and that you've parented her so well to handle it).

But they clearly don't get along. Probably because Alex is much more intelligent than Polly.

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

Oh, no. Yeah. New nanny.

I'm glad Alex appears to be merely puzzled, as opposed to outright traumatized.

[erikted.livejournal.com]

Given that I spent most of my childhood with caregivers I actively hated and vice-versa, all I can say is -- fucking well done.

[shandra.livejournal.com]

I think you are a really wonderfully tuned in mother to have worked all this out this quickly. (I am guessing it doesn't feel quick to you, but it is still amazing.)

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

Oh my yes. New nanny.

[moobabe.livejournal.com]

Yow. That's really scary. Isn't childcare such a mine field?

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Isn't childcare such a mine field?

It really, really is. And it's so hard not to go to the Bad Mother Place when something goes wrong.

[firecat]

I'm sorry this is happening. Not that I'm a parent, but I think you're saying the right things to Alex about God and the devil. And now you have more evidence that Alex has good instincts about people.

[guruwench.livejournal.com]

Good freaking gravy - Polly does sound like a piece of work. Definitely new nanny time.

I'm glad you and Michael have raised Alex such that she's handling this so well - that speaks volumes about you two as parents. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this, but glad you found out now rather than later.

[saoba.livejournal.com]

Ugh.

Talking to kids about God? Can be hard.

Talking to someone else's kids about God? Fraught.

Talking to someone else's kids about the devil hurting bad children? Simply. Not. On.

Here's hoping you find a new nanny with minimal hassle. And I'll note that Alex did come to you with her questions in her own time and short of a nanny-cam you couldn't have known any sooner.

[ratphooey.livejournal.com]

Oy.

Oy!

Fortunately, she'll be fine, and one day she'll laugh with you about this.

[ailbhe]

I wish they could have Alex just spend one more day with Polly, just so Alex could sweetly carol "The devil made me do it!" at regular intervals. I really must send those asps.

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

[eyebrows raising] Can't blame you - in addition to the religious thing I can't believe any nanny thinks it's ok to scare a child out of bad behavior.