(no subject)

[rivka]

Alex had an epic tantrum tonight. As has been the pattern lately, it happened because - gasp! - I dared to impose some discipline.

She likes to help me cook. Rule #1 for being in the kitchen when I'm cooking is that she has to do what I say. This is in part a safety rule (hot pans, knives, etc.) and in part a protect-the-menu-from-random-additions rule. It's been in place for a long time. Violation means banishment from the kitchen.

Well, tonight I found her holding the refrigerator door wide open. "What are you doing?" "I'm letting the cold air out." I told her to close it. Once. Twice. It wasn't until I walked towards her that she closed it and scampered away.

I reminded her of the rule and expelled her from the kitchen. She stood in the dining room door and started to cry. I reminded her of the rule again. And then, oh, the variety of tactics that she tried...

Bargaining: "I'm going to listen to what you say! I really am! I'm telling the truth!"

Self-justification: "I was cooling off the house! I was doing something good!"

Blame: "You're not being very nice to me!"

Guilt, Part I: "I was having a good day, until you made me have a tantrum!"

Excuse: "But I didn't HEAR you tell me to shut the fridge!"

Rage: She went into the living room, stood about two feet away from Michael, who was holding a sleeping Colin, and screamed.

Guilt, Part II: Back in the kitchen doorway, she informed me, "You even made COLIN cry!" "Colin didn't cry because you yelled and woke him up?" "No! Colin is crying because you made ME cry!"

Atonement: "I'm really sorry! I'm really really ashamed of what I did!"

Shame: "YOU should feel ashamed of what you did!"

Guilt, Part III: "Well, you're not ACTING like you love me!"

Piteousness: When I asked if she wanted to wipe down the table, "That's a really big job for just one little girl!"

Eventually she calmed down. I had her come out to the garden and help me pick herbs for dinner, and that seemed to help. I spent some time cuddling her and holding her on my lap... outside the kitchen.

She wasn't totally done, though. After dinner she picked a leaflet off the bookshelf and handed it to Michael. "Dad, let's read this." It was a children's brochure from church, and it included a children's version of the Seven Principles. After he read that part, she marched over to me.

"Mom, did you hear that? 'All people should be treated fairly and with kindness!'" she lectured.

"Did you have something you wanted to say to me about that?"

"You didn't treat me kindly!"

I told her that there are times that I don't treat her kindly - that I yell or lose my temper, that I shouldn't do that, and that I try not to. And then I explained, carefully, that the application of mild and reasonable discipline does not constitute unkind treatment. I'm not sure she bought it.

But... wow. She remembered what was in that leaflet and arranged to have it read aloud in my hearing as an object lesson. So that I would remember to apply the Seven Principles to my treatment of her. If you put aside the ridiculous drama, that's... actually a remarkably sophisticated way of addressing the situation.

We are so doomed, you guys.

Comments

[curiousangel.livejournal.com]

I'm just going to try to stay on her good side, so that she'll remember hear dear old father kindly when she's ruling the world.

Maybe she'll let me be King of Australia. :)

[saoba.livejournal.com]

I begin to doubt she'll settle for ruling the world. Tell me you guys haven't told her about galaxies yet.

[ailbhe]

I'm pretty sure I remember a conversation about the Universe, anyway.

[bosssio.livejournal.com]

yes. Doomed.

Like when I offered Anthony choice a or choice b and he looked at me and said "no, those are YOUR choices, not mine."

Or when Liam, replying to a friend who was trying to impose some rules on a game they were playing "No, this is MY game, I make the rules"

Liam walked up to Kimmie (our new nanny) and said "Is that gum?" When she said yes. He said "I LOOOOOOOOOVE you, Kinmmie!"

Doomed

[rivka.livejournal.com]

We hear "WHY DON'T I HAVE MORE OPTIONS!!" a lot.

[timill]

Well, she didn't treat you kindly...

[wcg.livejournal.com]

I couldn't help but think of the Pigeon, reading all those excuses. I don't know if it would help to remind her that the Pigeon never got to drive the bus, no matter how he tried to wheedle.

And yes, I am impressed by her application of the object lesson.

[qwerty88.livejournal.com]

"I couldn't help but think of the Pigeon, reading all those excuses."

Which is why I love Pigeon so much.

[beckyzoole.livejournal.com]

It's so hard to learn that "kindly" doesn't necessarily mean "giving me what I want". I'm glad you stuck to the rule. But, wow, yes, you are doomed!

[boxofdelights]

You held fast to the right decision through all that?


I am impressed with her will and her ingenuity, but I think you may be the parent she needs.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

You held fast to the right decision through all that?

Parenthood win.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I keep in mind the formulation that you gave me once: "You can't always have what you want, but you can always have a hug." So when she got to the part where she was wailing with remorse, I hugged her and told her that I loved her and I wasn't mad at her and it wasn't that big a deal... but she still needed to stay out of the kitchen until I was done cooking dinner.

I'm trying to be the mother she needs, but wow is it hard sometimes.

[elusis.livejournal.com]

I have to say, I have learned so much about parenting from reading your LJ these past few years.

[naomikritzer]

Yes, this, absolutely.

Also: WOW.

[ailbhe]

Yes, she am genius. She knows the word "ashamed," too.

I'm so lucky that I can believe my kids when they say they won't do something again. Sticking with that kind of thing to get that far is exhausting.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Oh, I believed her. We're just working on the idea that the time to comply with requests, etc., is before a consequence is imposed.

[ailbhe]

We've reached the point with Linnea now where determined slip-ups are really rare, so usually a warning ("You know the rule," etc) is enough, and the time out of the situation works one way or the other, so it's reasonable to let her back in as soon as she apologises and promises not to do it again, or she goes away and sulks somewhere else until she's feeling civilised again.

If it's any consolation, Emer seems to be picking it all up quicker, I think because adult-to-child discipline is something she has the opportunity to learn by observation while calm as well as by being in the situation herself while involved.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I'm a little concerned about the appearance of the word "ashamed," which is not a word we use. She's been showing signs of developing a nasty streak of perfectionism, lately, and it seems to connect to that.

[aitchellsee.livejournal.com]

Could that be related to experience with the "ex-Nannny"?

[rivka.livejournal.com]

it could be, but I'm sure she's also been exposed to the phrase "you should be ashamed of yourself" in books and TV.

[ailbhe]

It's a useful concept, because it labels feelings children really have, but it's a big word for a little girl. I wonder where it came from, if you don't use it? In that punitive context, I mean?

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

That's an epic trantrum. Not every child could have produced it.

We are so doomed, you guys.

Indeed.

;-)

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

The whole thing is really quite remarkable - the reasoning she uses is stuff I've watched immature twenty year olds try. She's really putting together actions and consequences and using a hell of a lot of logic there. Albeit to manipulate you, but still!

[roadnotes.livejournal.com]

I've seen forty-year-olds try that on me, with the same amount of success. She hasn't figured out that you don't try all the techniques and push all the buttons at once, which is a mercy. But yes, you are doomed.

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

You know, she could always end up in musical theatre.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

Aiee. Agent Weasel has always been a negotiator. "If you could just see things from my point of view..." from the three-year-old Agent was a moment to treasure.

Sounds like Alex is going to be just as much fun.

[kcobweb.livejournal.com]

We get versions of a lot of that (though usually not all in one episode!). The big one here (after she does something she's not supposed to do, and I impose consequences) is, "You hurt my feelings!" We are gradually working on introducing the ideas that she isn't the only one with feelings that could be hurt, and that hurt feelings don't automatically trump everything else going on. Surprisingly, this is a lesson she has been reluctant to hear.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Oh yes! Consequences hurt Alex's feelings terribly.

We are gradually working on introducing the ideas that she isn't the only one with feelings that could be hurt,

I am breathlessly awaiting Alex's first use of the Golden Rule in a non-accusatory context.

[kcobweb.livejournal.com]

EVERYTHING hurts Elena's feelings - she is very sensitive.