(no subject)

[rivka]

I came home this evening to discover that our landlord decided to replace the entire study ceiling, not just the third closest to the damage. I don't disagree, from a safety standpoint. But it means that we'll be without our study and our desktops for more than a week. It also means that all the bookshelves had to be covered with plastic sheeting, including all the homeschooling stuff and all Alex's art supplies, and I didn't know it was going to happen so I didn't save anything out.

Also, I am obsessing about lead. The workers said to keep the kids away from the study. Was that because of tools and ladders and debris and dust? Or was it because there is lead in the plaster debris, and "keep the kids away from the study" is their half-assed risk reduction strategy? Because if so... NO. Every time they come in and out they track dust onto the landing and stairs, where we pick it up on our feet and carry it all over the house. Annoying enough if it's just dirt. Potentially brain-damaging for the kids, if it's lead.

So. Tomorrow I'll be home when they come and I can ask them to test for lead. Until we know, there's no point in borrowing trouble. Right? Because our landlord is a conscientious guy, and not likely to risk the problems that would come from not properly safeguarding children from lead on his property.

Surely. Right?

Comments

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

You can buy a lead-test kit at the hardware store. Do it, and then you'll know, one way or the other.

I *think* it was mostly used in paint, not in plaster.

[mizchalmers.livejournal.com]

Came to say hardware store lead-test.

The circa 1907 kitchen ceiling in our old rental fell in when Claire was about three months old and we lived there through the repaid. She was smarter than me by age three. Anecdote isn't data but I wish and hope Alex and Colin will sail through this as she did, and you too.

[antonia-tiger.livejournal.com]

A lot of plaster was, and is, painted, and white lead used to be a very common pigment. I don't know what cut-off dates might be for the use of lead in paint, but I have an uncomfortable feeling that I didn't pay enough attention to risks in the past.

It wouldn't make sense to put lead compounds in the plaster mix.

Hopefully, the Landlord can confirm the ceiling is recent enough to be safe.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

They don't want the kids in there because of tools and ladders and debris and dust. They're not even THINKING of lead.

It seems unlikely to me that lead paint would be used in a ceiling -- you don't need toughness and corrosion resistance, or high gloss, in a ceiling, and those are the characteristics that lead adds to paint. For the most part, you see lead paint around window frames and sills.

In any case, get the testing kit, and you'll know.

[puzzlement.livejournal.com]

Ditto others, and I think this (http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm) applies to you. They'd be required to be much more rigorous with a lead risk than "don't let your kids near us".

[ranunculus.livejournal.com]

Here in California you cannot touch a home built before 1967 without doing full lead containment.
That means:
Sheet off the entire area with plastic. Floor, windows and doors.
Use a double plastic layer for doorways, with zipper.
Workers must use tyveck suits, cover their hair, and use booties while working. Booties must be removed to walk outside the containment area.
Tack cloth should be put down to remove any remaining dust clinging to feet.
All work be performed in a manner that reduces dust as much as possible, spraying water on work as they go.
Complete cleanup must be done to a standard which includes wiping everything down until the cleanup cloths are clean after wiping.

Dust tracked all over the house can be dangerous to children so get a lead test done ASAP.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

You're landlord has probably had to do lead paint testing in order to rent, but I'd check again for YOUR piece of mind.

[ratphooey.livejournal.com]

If they've covered the furnishings in the room with plastic sheeting, why have they not covered the doorway, too?

[rivka.livejournal.com]

They closed the door and then put carpenter's tape across the gap at the top. And actually they're taking the debris out of the room by the window rather than carrying it through the house.

I talked to the landlord and the handyman today, and I'm feeling much better. They had the house thoroughly, thoroughly lead-inspected when they rehabbed it before we moved in, and the ceiling paint is totally fine. The plastering itself, they assure me, never contained lead.

[ratphooey.livejournal.com]

Okay, then!

Plaster doesn't typically contain lead; it's the paint that's the culprit.

[gjules.livejournal.com]

First: Did the landlord have you sign an EPA-mandated lead disclosure when you leased the property? It's required for leases on rental housing built pre-1978. Generally, landlords who comply with the disclosure regs tend to be more aware of lead issues. If your landlord is truly conscientious about lead issues, he will have given you this to sign. If he didn't, I'd be wary of anything he says about lead.

Regardless of whether the landlord is on top of things, I'd go out and get the paint check swab (the type of test you can buy at the hardware store) now. However, be aware that the paint check swab is designed to test down to 0.5% (the legal limit for paint), not down to the significantly lower standards that apply for other materials (e.g. toys). The swab isn't as reliable as lab or XRF testing. Also, one swab across the surface of the paint may not identify lead in earlier layers of paint. Lead is one of the no-safe-level toxins, and with dust, I'd be wary even if it's below the 0.5% legal limit.

If you decide you want a more complete test, and the landlord isn't willing to do one, there are two ways to go. First option: hire someone who owns an XRF to come in for a few hours. Advantages: Quick (if they have availability -- the machine gives you the results right then), and they can test lots of surfaces, so you'll know about other painted surfaces in the house. Disadvantages: It usually runs a few hundred dollars (sometimes more if it's a rush job).

The second way: grab chip samples of the paint, put each sample in its own Ziploc baggie, write sample numbers (e.g. LBP-1, LBP-2, LBP-3), and call a local environmental lab to do the analysis. 24-hour rush should be $20-25 per sample, max. If you sample three chips from different parts of the ceiling, it should give you a good idea about whether there's any lead in the ceiling paint.

Lead is one of the no-safe-level toxins, so regardless of the results of any lead sampling (by you or the landlord), I'd take steps to minimize exposure to the dust. The workers should have plastic sheets blocking the area, at the very least. For vaccuuming the dust, use a vac that can take a HEPA filter.

Hope you don't mind me commenting -- this is part of the dayjob for me, and the comment kind of grew.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Yes, our landlord gave us a lead disclosure which said that the house had been extensively tested for lead and was okay. When I spoke to his handyman today, he said that the tester had gone all over the house swabbing every conceivable bit of paint.

Both the landlord and the handyman said that there isn't any possibility of lead in the plaster itself - paint would be the only possibility, and the ceiling paint was tested. So I am much less freaked out today. ...It's just that I have complete responsibility for these two developing brains, you know?

Thanks for the advice.

[ailbhe]

I'm glad the lead thing is sorted out, and since the plastic sheeting is mainly a dust thing, you can probably carefully sneak in and get some materials out.

Or buy a kids' plastering set and try to make your own ceiling in a shoebox diorama type room. Plastering is hard, even with plasterboard as your base.