I survived!

[rivka]

The service went really well. At five minutes before the hour, there were only about 35 people present, and I felt disappointed. But by the time the prelude and call to worship were over every seat was filled and there were a couple of people sitting on the floor. (This was just the Parish Hall, so it was probably about 60-70 people - not the 300 it would take to fill the sanctuary).

I felt as though the readings and hymns I chose worked well. Hymns might actually sound better in the Parish Hall, where they don't get swallowed up by the immense barrel ceiling - but also I tried to choose hymns that were quite familiar so people would be more comfortable singing out. (For fellow UUs: we sang "There's a River Flowin' in My Soul," "Gather the Spirit," "Blessed Spirit of My Life," and "We'll Build a Land.")

I was nervous beforehand, but not at all nervous once I started to give the sermon. Michael only had to signal me to slow down once.

When it was time to introduce visitors, it turned out that the Final Exit Network guy didn't bring anyone to church after all, so all my worries about that were groundless. Many thanks to zeldajean, selki, and wcg, who were visitors on my behalf, as well as the home crowd: curiousangel, acceberskoorb, and telerib. I felt very supported.

After church, a number of people came up to tell me how much they appreciated what I had to say. I talked to someone who had been a hospice chaplain for twelve years and, oh my gosh, a woman whose adult son committed suicide three months ago and who wanted to ask my advice about her grandson. Several people asked me to send them the text. Several other people told me, more neutrally, that I had given them a lot to think about.

In the talkback afterward, Final Exit Guy told the group that, far from thinking he was on opposite sides from me, he thought I sounded just like a representative of his organization. Because - and he had written this down - at one point I said "everyone has a right to make their own decision." That was apparently all he heard.

A range of opinions were represented. For much of the talkback we discussed making choices about when to stop treatment, and personal and medical factors affecting those decisions. We got more into questions of suicide towards the end - maybe because that's such a more vulnerable issue. Interest was expressed in an adult RE class on end-of-life issues, which I think would be excellent.

I don't know if I changed any minds today. I do think that I complicated the issue for some people who thought it wasn't that complicated before, which may be all I can hope for. And I know that it was very helpful for people who were already leaning toward my point of view.

Comments

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

*applause*

[womzilla.livejournal.com]

Yay you!

Did you post a consolidated final text?

[wcg.livejournal.com]

I complicated the issue for some people who thought it wasn't that complicated before

That's success in my book.

I hope the text of your sermon gets passed around and read by many. Your closely drawn arguments got a bit lost in the fan roar at the back of the room, even though I had a pretty good idea what you were saying. I think that for many people a good reading of your sermon will help to increase understanding.

[lynsaurus.livejournal.com]

Go, you! I had no doubts that you would be fabulous.

What great liturgical thinking on the hymn selection!

There is an out-of-print adult RE curriculum called "Faithful Choices" by Wayne Arnason that relates to clinical ethics. I haven't used it myself. I'm not suggesting work for you, but it's there if somebody else is so moved by your sermon that they want to lead a class.

I'm so sorry I wasn't able to be there. Congratulations again.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

What great liturgical thinking on the hymn selection!

Yay! Somebody noticed!

I had a second, wicked list of hymns for if I wanted to hit everyone over the head with my point of view. You know, like "Life is the Greatest Gift of All" and "Just as Long as I Have Breath." These felt more subtle, but still connected in important ways.

I'm sorry that we didn't think to set up a chaise longue in the Parish Hall so that you could attend lying on your left side. :-) Thinking of you and wishing you and the babies well.

[selki.livejournal.com]

Oops -- I noticed (and I don't even know these hymns -- but then, maybe that made it more noticeable?), but it seemed so obvious I didn't even comment. Maybe I should work on giving compliments more, even obvious ones. :-)

[kate_nepveu]

Glad to hear it went well. And reading your drafts has given me a lot of food for thought.

[ailbhe]

I'm glad it went well. I'm amazed anyone thinks it isn't complicated.

[gerisullivan.livejournal.com]

Congratulations. It was a hard, scary, very good and important sermon to give, and I'm delighted to read it went so smoothly and well.

[kcobweb.livejournal.com]

Yay - so glad to hear it went well and was well-received!

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

Glad it went well!

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

hurray! i'm glad it went so well!

[marith.livejournal.com]

Awesome! I'm glad it went well, and congratulations on achieving what you set out to do.

(Admission: haven't read the text yet. But if it's as eloquent and sensible as your lj posts, it will give me a lot to think about too.)

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

In the talkback afterward, Final Exit Guy told the group that, far from thinking he was on opposite sides from me, he thought I sounded just like a representative of his organization. Because - and he had written this down - at one point I said "everyone has a right to make their own decision." That was apparently all he heard.

Well, that might be all he needed to hear. Keep in mind that he might have been expecting you to attack him (or his ideas).

[selki.livejournal.com]

OTOH, I was reminded of Smiling Tal from Usenet, and his oily habit of telling people [edit: who were clearly diametrically opposed to him] they agreed with him (they just didn't know it yet, more or less). Then there was FEG's direct refutations of things I thought were facts about Final Exit, but I haven't done enough studying of the facts on my own to say much about that.

But, I don't know FE guy, and yeah, maybe he was just relieved, given that earlier write-up from the church newsletter.

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

That's definitely a possibility - I don't know the guy. And I probably shouldn't have said anything, under those circumstances.

But I do know that, when I first heard Rivka's rather vehement opposition to assisted suicide, I was a bit surprised and a little nervous about why she had such strong feelings. Once I heard her reasoning, *I* realized that we're both strong supporters of caring for people who are dying. We don't "agree, (she, or I ) just (doesn't/don't) know it yet" - but we're on the same side. We both want to see people die as peacefully/happily as possible.

I haven't been in a situation in which my thoughts on assisted suicide had any relationship to a person's medical treatment. My opinions are subject to change if/when that happens. But I'm not willing to rule out assisted suicide. I'm not comfortable if it's taken off the table entirely. And I am awfully nervous that a lot of people who oppose assisted suicide are the same kind of people who'd refuse to take someone off a respirator (or a feeding tube) if they had the power to do so. But - I agree wholeheartedly that *if* a person chooses assisted suicide, it should not be out of fear of end of life suffering, or a result of a predictable set of emotional reactions to news of one's impending death, and that we, as a society, are much better if we push for good hospice care and good support for the dying, rather than letting assisted suicide be the answer.

[aloha-moira.livejournal.com]

Oh, I am so glad that it was drama-free. Also glad that you posted the full text of the sermon; I really wanted to share it with my mom... she's already on your side but I think she would love your perspective.

everyone has a right to make their own decision

[ratphooey.livejournal.com]

That's key, isn't it?

It's a bonus when those decisions are well-informed and well-reasoned.

Re: everyone has a right to make their own decision

[rivka.livejournal.com]

What I had said was that everyone has a right to their own decision about when to stop pursuing curative medical treatment. I don't agree that everyone has a right to kill themselves, which presumably is his position.

Re: everyone has a right to make their own decision

[ratphooey.livejournal.com]

Ah. See, I *do* think that everyone has the right to end their own lives. Why they might want to, and whether or not they should, is the more problematic issue for me (and seems to be what your sermon spoke to).

[boxofdelights]

Final Exit Guy told the group that, far from thinking he was on opposite sides from me, he thought I sounded just like a representative of his organization.

Man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest: what a surprise. But trying to claim that your work is representative of his organization -- that's despicable.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I can't speak for your church members, but over the course of the last month you have definitely changed my mind. Thank you very much for this series of posts.

(Context: One, I used to be pretty firmly pro legality-of-assisted-suicide, at least the Oregon law (while being disturbed at how it's worked out in the Netherlands). Two, some years back I survived a suicide attempt, when I was physically healthy (although obviously not mentally).)

-Lurker who wishes to be anonymous for privacy reasons

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Your comment means a lot to me.