I'm going back to bed. Wake me in 2004. Or on second thought, don't - I don't want to face the legions of hard-line Republican judges sure to be on the bench by then.
For me it wouldn't be a defection, since I was born with Canadian citizenship. (Dual US/CAN to be precise.) But I'll stay here. I've cast my lot with the US, and my hope this morning is that some people will recognize that the R party has seized the populist center of the American electorate. It's time for the D party to stop assuming it's the party of the people.
Besides, Canada has had its share of right wing loons in recent years too.
On the other hand, I may want to visit Canada more often now. Maybe find a vacation cottage in southern Ontario... It'd be good to keep in closer touch with the relatives there.
Bill, may I respectfully disagree with you on the idea that the Republicans are "populist?" My understanding of historical populism is that it focused on strong controls at the local government level, including controls on issuing credit, and strong controls at the federal level with regard to restricting monopolies. The current Republican party seems to be dressing up oligarchism in libertarian clothing and then shouting "We're populists!" as loud as it can.
Now, mind you, I'm not saying the Democrats deserve the tag of populist, either, and your core point --"Okay, Dems, figure out why you are losing"-- is a good one. I'm just saying that if the Bush family, Dick Cheney, and Arnold Schwartzenegger are populists than I'm your Aunt Fanny. :-)
I don't think Bill was suggesting that the GOP has suddenly become populist - just that they've done a damned good job of selling the populi on that notion.
Gotta admire a successful marketing campaign, even when the product is just the same old horse shit dressed up in a fancy new package.
To be fair, I doubt he was saying that either, but maybe instead referring to the _popular_ center. But ever since I saw David Duke (yes, that David Duke) try to lay claim to populism as a term to describe his views, I get a might protective of the history of that term.
While I'd agree with your definition as applied to the Populist Party which existed back in the late 19th and early 20th century, I was thinking more along the lines of populist politics in general, going back at least to the Roman republic. The first and second triumvirates were almost exactly what you described when you wrote about oligarchs in role camoflage.
For further discussion of this, why don't you come on over to my journal, where I've made a similar post. I don't want to hijack Rivka's journal.
On NPR this morning, I heard a commentator discussing that a Republican-Controlled Congress may actually cause Bush to lose the next presidential election. Without a bunch of Democrats to take the blame, Bush will get the heat for any failures.
Or you can just borrow my teddy bear. His name's Gerhardt.
(shudder) makes me glad I'm living in California... at least the state has a history of defying the federal government on domestic issues. I wouldn't want to be living in, say, Iowa or Alabama today... even places like Virginia look uncomfortably conservative.
Yes. Virginia does feel uncomfortably conservative at the moment. Spine-chillingly so. But I picked it, and NoVa isn't quite as bad as some other parts of the state. Though it does make the thought of going back to NY or moving out west more and more tempting.
makes me glad I'm living in California... at least the state has a history of defying the federal government on domestic issues. I wouldn't want to be living in, say, Iowa or Alabama today... even places like Virginia look uncomfortably conservative.
I see what you mean, absolutely. I feel somewhat safer in Maryland even though we just got a Republican governor, because it's such an intense Democratic stronghold. But still... yeah. Argh.
I'm guessing you picked your examples at random, though? Because I can't think of any issue on which Iowans are more conservative than Virginians. Iowa just re-elected their Democratic governor (Vilsack) and their Democratic senator (Harkin). It's a historically Democratic state - went for Gore in 2000, for example - with a strong tradition of populism.
But I only know this because I happened to live there for five years - I think probably most people assume that Iowa must be a bastion of conservatism.
But I only know this because I happened to live there for five years - I think probably most people assume that Iowa must be a bastion of conservatism.
it's all the pigs and corn. everyone knows that pigs and corn vote republican.
[nod nod nod]
most people do assume that. i, despite having lived next to iowa for most of my life, assumed that until i met some iowans at college. but now i know better.
I'm guessing you picked your examples at random, though? Because I can't think of any issue on which Iowans are more conservative than Virginians. Iowa just re-elected their Democratic governor (Vilsack) and their Democratic senator (Harkin). It's a historically Democratic state - went for Gore in 2000, for example - with a strong tradition of populism.
But I only know this because I happened to live there for five years - I think probably most people assume that Iowa must be a bastion of conservatism.
They also re-elected 3 incumbent Republican congresscritters (Nussle, Leach, and Latham), and the incumbent Republican senator (Grassley) doesn't run until 2004. Iowa doesn't have a stereotypical "conservative" outlook on anything; I'd characterize it instead as "pragmatic" or "individual". It certainly doesn't have that religious tinge to its conservatism, either, at least not the way that you see it in places like Virginia or Tennessee.
Remember, too, that we lived in the People's Republic of Johnson County. Iowa City was a dramatically different place than even Cedar Rapids, let alone someplace like Mason City. If someone like Steven Kanner or Karen Kubby (noted far-left former members of the Iowa City City Council, for those of you who are blessedly ignorant of Iowa City politics) had tried to run for office in Bettendorf, for example, they'd have been beaten so badly that it wouldn't have even been close. Also, what passes for so-far-to-the-left-you're-in-WooWooLand in Iowa City is not nearly as exceptional for someplace like Portland or Seattle. (Excepting, of course, the Natural Law party, which essentially owns Fairfield, Iowa. The natives tend to refer to the Natural Law people as "roo's", short for "guru". Not as much tension there as you might think, though.)
They also re-elected 3 incumbent Republican congresscritters (Nussle, Leach, and Latham), and the incumbent Republican senator (Grassley) doesn't run until 2004. Iowa doesn't have a stereotypical "conservative" outlook on anything; I'd characterize it instead as "pragmatic" or "individual". It certainly doesn't have that religious tinge to its conservatism, either, at least not the way that you see it in places like Virginia or Tennessee.
Remember, too, that we lived in the People's Republic of Johnson County. Iowa City was a dramatically different place than even Cedar Rapids, let alone someplace like Mason City.
I didn't say it was a bastion of flaming liberalism, either. I said that Iowa is less conservative than Virginia. Can you disagree? It's not just the religious right in VA, although lord knows they don't help - it's things like the fact that if exonerating evidence comes to light more than 21 days after a death penalty conviction, it's inadmissible. There's nothing particularly Christian about that, and I can't see it flying in Iowa. For heaven's sake, VA didn't even bother to run a Democrat against Warner. That wouldn't happen in Iowa either.
Ah, wait. Suddenly I perceive the problem. You're afraid that I've started seeing Iowa through rose-colored glasses, and might want to move back, right? Don't worry, love. It'll never happen. *grin*
(Incidentally: "schuyler" is taken as an LJ username. "schipperke" is taken as well. "schuylertheskipperke" isn't allowed - too long. "thelilschuyler" is still available. This message brought to you by the "can we pleeeeease" get a puppy?" council.)
I didn't say it was a bastion of flaming liberalism, either. I said that Iowa is less conservative than Virginia. Can you disagree?
I don't generally disagree, no. I think Iowa certainly doesn't deserve the conservative rap it usually gets, but it also has a different kind of conservatism, one that doesn't register as blatantly on other people's political radar. It's a conservatism that I would be more comfortable living around, although as a native Tennessean, I'm more familiar with the more overtly religious sort.
Ah, wait. Suddenly I perceive the problem. You're afraid that I've started seeing Iowa through rose-colored glasses, and might want to move back, right? Don't worry, love. It'll never happen. *grin*
Whew. *grin*
My gripes with Iowa had more to do with the weather, the economy, and the lack of urbanity. I actually rather enjoyed some of the political scene there, especially the whole "caucus" system, archaic though it might have been. The constant sniping and infighting among the local Democrats was considerably less appealing, however.
makes me glad I'm living in California... even places like Virginia look uncomfortably conservative.
NPR ran a story yesterday about a California man sentenced to life imprisonment under California's "three strikes" law -- for shoplifting. He had, apparently, been a stupendously bad burglar for one day nine years ago, and was charged with three counts of burglary from his one day as a criminal. Since the burglaries were property crimes, the DA was able to escalate his misdemeanor shoplifting (of children's videos for his kids, no less) to a felony, and lock him away for life. (Shades of Jean Valjean!) He won't be eligible for parole for 50 years... whereas if he'd raped a woman instead, he could be out in eight years or less.
If that doesn't qualify as "uncomfortably conservative," what does?
Actually, I'd argue that that illustrates the long-lasting aftereffects of a Republican-dominated government (like our energy deregulation mess) -- the infamous "three-strikes" law was enacted when Republicans controlled CA state government in the late 80s and early-mid 90s. Thankfully, the Supreme Court is now reviewing several similar cases as to whether they construe cruel & unusual punishment. (which I think they do, personally)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
syntheid
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 06:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 06:39 am (UTC)-J
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 07:00 am (UTC)Besides, Canada has had its share of right wing loons in recent years too.
On the other hand, I may want to visit Canada more often now. Maybe find a vacation cottage in southern Ontario... It'd be good to keep in closer touch with the relatives there.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 08:24 am (UTC)Now, mind you, I'm not saying the Democrats deserve the tag of populist, either, and your core point --"Okay, Dems, figure out why you are losing"-- is a good one. I'm just saying that if the Bush family, Dick Cheney, and Arnold Schwartzenegger are populists than I'm your Aunt Fanny. :-)
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 10:36 am (UTC)Gotta admire a successful marketing campaign, even when the product is just the same old horse shit dressed up in a fancy new package.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 10:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 12:23 pm (UTC)For further discussion of this, why don't you come on over to my journal, where I've made a similar post. I don't want to hijack Rivka's journal.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 03:34 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2002-11-06 03:35 pm (UTC)Hey! I thought you said there wasn't going to be any flirting.
*scribbles note to self*
Date: 2002-11-06 03:49 pm (UTC)Useful things to know.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 07:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 07:28 am (UTC)On NPR this morning, I heard a commentator discussing that a Republican-Controlled Congress may actually cause Bush to lose the next presidential election. Without a bunch of Democrats to take the blame, Bush will get the heat for any failures.
Or you can just borrow my teddy bear. His name's Gerhardt.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 07:39 am (UTC)Re:
Date: 2002-11-06 01:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 08:36 am (UTC)Does anyone else remember the 1994 election and the "Contract
onfor America"?I'm certainly hoping for a similar turn around in 2004.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 08:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 08:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 08:56 am (UTC)I see what you mean, absolutely. I feel somewhat safer in Maryland even though we just got a Republican governor, because it's such an intense Democratic stronghold. But still... yeah. Argh.
I'm guessing you picked your examples at random, though? Because I can't think of any issue on which Iowans are more conservative than Virginians. Iowa just re-elected their Democratic governor (Vilsack) and their Democratic senator (Harkin). It's a historically Democratic state - went for Gore in 2000, for example - with a strong tradition of populism.
But I only know this because I happened to live there for five years - I think probably most people assume that Iowa must be a bastion of conservatism.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 09:14 am (UTC)it's all the pigs and corn. everyone knows that pigs and corn vote republican.
[nod nod nod]
most people do assume that. i, despite having lived next to iowa for most of my life, assumed that until i met some iowans at college. but now i know better.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 11:27 am (UTC)But I only know this because I happened to live there for five years - I think probably most people assume that Iowa must be a bastion of conservatism.
They also re-elected 3 incumbent Republican congresscritters (Nussle, Leach, and Latham), and the incumbent Republican senator (Grassley) doesn't run until 2004. Iowa doesn't have a stereotypical "conservative" outlook on anything; I'd characterize it instead as "pragmatic" or "individual". It certainly doesn't have that religious tinge to its conservatism, either, at least not the way that you see it in places like Virginia or Tennessee.
Remember, too, that we lived in the People's Republic of Johnson County. Iowa City was a dramatically different place than even Cedar Rapids, let alone someplace like Mason City. If someone like Steven Kanner or Karen Kubby (noted far-left former members of the Iowa City City Council, for those of you who are blessedly ignorant of Iowa City politics) had tried to run for office in Bettendorf, for example, they'd have been beaten so badly that it wouldn't have even been close. Also, what passes for so-far-to-the-left-you're-in-WooWooLand in Iowa City is not nearly as exceptional for someplace like Portland or Seattle. (Excepting, of course, the Natural Law party, which essentially owns Fairfield, Iowa. The natives tend to refer to the Natural Law people as "roo's", short for "guru". Not as much tension there as you might think, though.)
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 11:44 am (UTC)Remember, too, that we lived in the People's Republic of Johnson County. Iowa City was a dramatically different place than even Cedar Rapids, let alone someplace like Mason City.
I didn't say it was a bastion of flaming liberalism, either. I said that Iowa is less conservative than Virginia. Can you disagree? It's not just the religious right in VA, although lord knows they don't help - it's things like the fact that if exonerating evidence comes to light more than 21 days after a death penalty conviction, it's inadmissible. There's nothing particularly Christian about that, and I can't see it flying in Iowa. For heaven's sake, VA didn't even bother to run a Democrat against Warner. That wouldn't happen in Iowa either.
Ah, wait. Suddenly I perceive the problem. You're afraid that I've started seeing Iowa through rose-colored glasses, and might want to move back, right? Don't worry, love. It'll never happen. *grin*
(Incidentally: "schuyler" is taken as an LJ username. "schipperke" is taken as well. "schuylertheskipperke" isn't allowed - too long. "thelilschuyler" is still available. This message brought to you by the "can we pleeeeease" get a puppy?" council.)
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 12:13 pm (UTC)I don't generally disagree, no. I think Iowa certainly doesn't deserve the conservative rap it usually gets, but it also has a different kind of conservatism, one that doesn't register as blatantly on other people's political radar. It's a conservatism that I would be more comfortable living around, although as a native Tennessean, I'm more familiar with the more overtly religious sort.
Ah, wait. Suddenly I perceive the problem. You're afraid that I've started seeing Iowa through rose-colored glasses, and might want to move back, right? Don't worry, love. It'll never happen. *grin*
Whew. *grin*
My gripes with Iowa had more to do with the weather, the economy, and the lack of urbanity. I actually rather enjoyed some of the political scene there, especially the whole "caucus" system, archaic though it might have been. The constant sniping and infighting among the local Democrats was considerably less appealing, however.
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 11:12 am (UTC)NPR ran a story yesterday about a California man sentenced to life imprisonment under California's "three strikes" law -- for shoplifting. He had, apparently, been a stupendously bad burglar for one day nine years ago, and was charged with three counts of burglary from his one day as a criminal. Since the burglaries were property crimes, the DA was able to escalate his misdemeanor shoplifting (of children's videos for his kids, no less) to a felony, and lock him away for life. (Shades of Jean Valjean!) He won't be eligible for parole for 50 years... whereas if he'd raped a woman instead, he could be out in eight years or less.
If that doesn't qualify as "uncomfortably conservative," what does?
no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 11:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 11:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-11-06 12:06 pm (UTC)Hee! Those Minnesotans are a wily and seductive bunch.