Grr.

[rivka]

rivka:
> > Did you intend to insult me with the "Piled Higher
> > and Deeper" part, or did you not realize that it
> > refers to *shit* being piled higher and deeper?

Someone else, not the original poster:
> Of course; it's a geometric progression (or worse):
>
> BSc -- Bullshit certificate
> MSc -- More shit certificate
> PhD -- Piled higher and deeper.
>
> Felicitations and salutations -- nobody will ever know
> what agonies you went through for that worthless piece
> of paper but you. Treasure those happy memories for they
> will sustain you in the trials to come.
>
> I'm not good at this sort of thing, as you may have surmised.

rivka:
If you were aiming at taking me down a peg, undercutting
my pleasant sense of accomplishment, or devaluing eight
years' worth of hard work, you're on the right track. If
that's not what you meant to be doing, well, maybe next
time you should stick to "felicitations" and leave it at
that.

I know I'm supposed to take this as all in good fun, but
I've spent eight years of my life working very hard,
earning very little, forgoing many pleasures, and postponing
other significant life goals. I don't know what prompts you
to tell me that my degree is worthless and my work is a
shitpile, but forgive me if I don't really have a sense
of humor about it.

---

Okay, I feel as though I've completely lost my shit here - or at least, my sense of perspective. But these comments just feel hostile to me. I'm sure he thinks he's just teasing and I know I'm supposed to be a good sport about it. And maybe if I weren't still so tired from the whole ordeal I would be a good sport about it. Or if it was someone I knew so well that their supportiveness could be taken for granted, and we had a pre-existing teasing relationship. In the absence of those factors, I feel as though I'm being told not to get above myself.

Comments

[snippy]

To me it looks like you lost your sense of perspective, in a couple of ways. One, that's a common joke, and I've never seen it used hurtfully, it's meant to be a shared acknowledgement that you did something so wonderful the only way to acknowledge it is to downplay it; two, you are placing a lot of importance on a casual remark that you are interpreting as an insult; and three, that newsgroup is not alt.cuddle, and even if that remark was intended as an insult it's a not-unpredictable thing to happen there.

However, I see (reading the other comments) that everyone disagrees with me. I'll be careful not to joke around you, since my idea of a joke obviously isn't congruent to yours. This joke is in the same category as referring to a spouse as "the old ball and chain," and can be done with good will and humor or with resentment and passive aggressive negativity. If you are sure you know which one was intended here, then of course you are reacting properly.

Even then, I say just throw it away. Don't let it spoil your sense of accomplishment and triumph. (In fact, does the fact that you are so bothered by it mean anything to you?)

For what it's worth (and probably to you, not much)

[ororo.livejournal.com]

I've never heard anyone I know in a happy, healthy relationship refer to a partner as a "ball and chain."

Re: For what it's worth (and probably to you, not much)

[snippy]

How passive aggressive of you to predict my negative response and yet still communicate. The fact is that your anecdotal evidence is worth exactly the same as my anecdotal evidence. I have heard it used lovingly, although only once. I've *never* heard it used meanly in a real conversation, only in fiction (such as a sitcom on tv). Teasing is a part of some loving relationships and some unloving ones, but not all of either.

I think the "piled higher and deeper" thing is most appropriately used by someone who has also earned the degree in question, *but* fandom is not notorious for highly socialized people who follow all the same rules of social intercourse, so I'm not a bit surprised that it might be used by someone who means well, but doesn't completely understand the context.

And here is where I insert something about not attributing to malice what can be ascribed to carelessness. I do think Rivka is being very sensitive and reactive, and with good reason: she is tired and stressed out, or recovering from being those things.

Re: For what it's worth (and probably to you, not much)

[ororo.livejournal.com]

What you see as passive-aggressive, I see as a valid call based on the contents of the post I answered.

Re: For what it's worth (and probably to you, not much)

[snippy]

What is passive aggressive is not your prediction of my response, but your choice to include that prediction in your post.

And you were wrong, that was not my response. I repeat, your anecdotal evidence has exactly the same value as mine.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

To me it looks like you lost your sense of perspective, in a couple of ways. One, that's a common joke,

The "piled higher and deeper" thing is, and I responded to that with mild peeved-ness. The "worthless piece of paper" thing doesn't strike me as a joke at all. Can you explain what makes it funny?

(In fact, does the fact that you are so bothered by it mean anything to you?)

I think it's probably, as akicif suggested, exhaustion and stress-letdown. I'm just coming off something incredibly intense, and I haven't even made up the sleep debt yet.

It's probably a lot like the reaction someone would get if they made a joke to a new mother, whose baby was not yet sleeping through the night, about how easy stay-at-home moms had it because they could loll around all day watching soap operas. The mother of a teenager could probably laugh, but would the new mother?

So, what does the fact that you're so bothered by my current loss of perspective that you don't think I can ever be trusted around humor again mean to you?

[snippy]

The "worthless piece of paper" is a reference to whether having a Ph.D. helps you get a job. Higher education isn't supposed to be job training, but a lot of people treat it as if it is. Granted, it's not that funny, but I really do believe it was meant to be. Maybe you know that poster better than I do; maybe you know that person well enough to decide intent. I could be wrong.

So, what does the fact that you're so bothered by my current loss of perspective that you don't think I can ever be trusted around humor again mean to you?

It's not that I don't trust *you* around humor, it's that I'd hate to accidentally hurt your feelings by making what I thought was a joke. I admire you and feel friendly toward you, and I don't want to hurt you, and since I can't be sure my sense of humor would work for you, I just won't make jokes. My sense of humor is not the only way to find things funny!

snippy ain't totally alone :)

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

i also haven't really ever heard it used in a hostile manner, but instead it's a truly ancient witticism with which lots of phd's and phd candidates i've known have teased each other. so, yeah, i think dr. rivka is taking it a bit too much to heart. especially coming from what sounds to me like relative strangers in rasff.

it doesn't sound to me in either case like there's hostility towards rivka present, but it sounds a lot more like people who don't really know what to properly say -- lack of social ept, maybe? and in the second case, somebody is trying to congratulate who's not managed to accomplish the same zirself and sounds like zie's still smarting that failure.

that said, killfile anyone who feels like zie's raining on your parade, and enjoy your accomplishment! no reason to pay attention to people you don't even know. you worked hard, you earned it. congratulations!

(oh -- but i really hate "ball and chain" jokes, and have to sit on my fins to not bite off the heads of people who think they are funny -- i suspect most of us have one or another blind spot when it comes to jokes.)