I am the biggest bitch in the world.

[rivka]

Rivka: Good morning.
Health Club Clerk: Oh, good for you, you made it in.
Rivka: [silently wonders why this is news]
Health Club Clerk: [takes membership card to scan] I have a friend, she's got multiple sclerosis, and she blah blah blah.
Rivka: Why are you telling me this?
Health Club Clerk: [says more things about her friend with multiple sclerosis]
Rivka: [slightly louder] Why are you telling me this?
Health Club Clerk: Well... what do you have?
Rivka: That's a personal question. That's none of your business.
Health Club Clerk: Oh. But I just...
Rivka: [firmly] It's a very rude question. [walks away]
Health Club Clerk: [calling after her] I'm sorry! I didn't mean to hurt your feelings!
Rivka: [calling back] You didn't "hurt my feelings," you made me angry.
Health Club Clerk: Ma'am, ma'am, please come here. Please accept my apology.
Rivka: [alarmed] Okay, just... okay, don't cry.
Health Club Clerk: [crying] I am going to cry. I've had a really bad day, and...
Rivka: Look, I'm sorry you've had a bad day, but...
Health Club Clerk: Please, please say you accept my apology.
Rivka: Fine. I accept your apology. Okay.

Sheesh.

Comments

[rivka.livejournal.com]

What do you say when she comes in?

"Good morning, isn't it a lovely day today? Here's your towel." Essentially, you stifle your curiosity about her obvious disability because it's not appropriate to your clerk-customer role.

Suppose that this person isn't a complete stranger, and your role doesn't automatically preclude the asking of personal questions? I'm going to give some examples of when it's okay to talk/ask about disability.

When you are close enough to the person that you would ask other personal questions:
fairoriana: Did your previous marriage end badly? Are you pregnant? What are those scars from?

When you are friends or at least reasonably well-acquainted and the other person brings it up or alludes to it:
rivka: Man, this rain makes my joints ache.
fairoriana: Oh, do you have arthritis?

rivka: I can't fasten this kind of necklace because of my arm.
fairoriana: What's up with your arm, anyway?

When you have some compelling reason to know:
fairoriana: We're having a party Saturday night, and we'd like you to come, but do you have any problem with stairs? We're on the second floor.

rivka: Oooh, swing dancing! Wanna dance?
fairoriana: I'd love to. Is there any way I could hurt your arm if I twirl you?

When you wonder if a disabled person needs help doing something, ask about the help, not the disability:

fairoriana: Would you like to sit down? Can I give you a hand with that? Would you rather take the elevator?

(Note that you should take "no" for an answer in all of these cases, and that you should always ask before supplying help.)

I hope this helps.

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

That does help -- thank you. Those are good guidelines.

[wild-irises.livejournal.com]

Once again, there is always Raphael Carter's rule, which applies in so, so, so many situations.

"When is it appropriate to ask an intersexual about the configuration of zir genitals?"

"In the same situations that it is appropriate to ask a man about his penis size."

In other words, not bloody many. Rivka, I love your detailed list of when one can ask and how. At the same time, anyone not willing to study and memorize such a detailed list (self-educate) is best advised to go with the simple: when in doubt, don't ask, don't comment, and don't offer help.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Rivka, I love your detailed list of when one can ask and how. At the same time, anyone not willing to study and memorize such a detailed list (self-educate) is best advised to go with the simple: when in doubt, don't ask, don't comment, and don't offer help.

I trust fairoriana to be willing to think carefully and learn from feedback. Another person might've gotten a different response from me.

I would say "don't help," not "don't offer help." As long as people are willing to wait for a response before jumping in, I think that offering help is generally acceptable.

[wild-irises.livejournal.com]

I would say "don't help," not "don't offer help." As long as people are willing to wait for a response before jumping in, I think that offering help is generally acceptable.

I've been trained by some fine and thoughtful gimps not to offer, on the combined theories that a) disabled people do need to learn to be able to ask, and b) it's almost impossible to tell what offers are appropriate without knowing more than you can know on a casual meeting. This makes it very, very useful to hear a different perspective from you.

[perigee.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with Rivka.

To elaborate my own opinion, I'm cool with an offer, as long as if/when I turn it down, it doesn't generate resentment or disappointment. I think offers should not come with strings, as they often do, especially when a subject is loaded for someone. As long as they don't come with strings, I'm cool with them.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

My gut reaction to this part:

a) disabled people do need to learn to be able to ask

is that it's just paternalism re-directed. I'll decide, myself, what I need to learn. If generic-you don't want to offer me help with something, don't offer - but don't tell yourself that you're giving me an opportunity for self-improvement.

Years ago, I got on a moderately crowded subway in Boston with my crutches, and found that no one who was sitting down would make eye contact with me. No one got up to offer me their seat, and I rode standing for two stops. That was a crystalizing incident for me - I subsequently developed much greater assertiveness in the face of denied accomodations. But that doesn't mean that those assholes on the train did me a favor, or that they were doing the right thing by ignoring my manifest need to sit down.

Whoo! I guess there was a whole rant there, waiting to come out. Sorry.

Or, contrariwise: curiousangel has a habit of unobtrusively offering help in situations where I often want it - for example, offering me his arm when we go down un-railinged steps, or when I need to get up from sitting on the floor. I'm perfectly capable of saying "could I have your arm, please," but I find his anticipatory offers very thoughtful - especially the way he does it without calling attention to me. (Of course, this is an extreme example of someone who is very, very close to me.)

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

My gut reaction to this part:

a) disabled people do need to learn to be able to ask

is that it's just paternalism re-directed. I'll decide, myself, what I need to learn. If generic-you don't want to offer me help with something, don't offer - but don't tell yourself that you're giving me an opportunity for self-improvement.

Thank you. I was going to reply to that, but I think my reply was going to be rather less polite than yours.

Offering help to the disabled

[wiredferret.livejournal.com]

I find this especially interesting, because although we don't think about it much that way, we grew up with someone who has a disability.

Our dad is pretty firm about not self-defining as disabled, but he is. He has always done poorly at standing. He can't really jump, or stand on one leg. In my memory, he has spent significant time on crutches.

But because it's a mostly-invisible disability, he manages to deflect all inquiries. Still, both of us know how to help a person larger than us out of a chair, and do it automatically. We evaluate walking surfaces at a subconscious level. Just a dozen little coping things that never really got explained, or talked about.