Well, that was unpleasant.

[rivka]

We fired her. We said that it was a bad fit and not improving. She denied ever saying anything about the devil, recast the God story to make Alex's comment about the emperor of China the beginning of the conversation, and predicted that when we try with someone else we will find that Alex simply adjusts poorly to being left and none of this was her fault.

I can't think of anywhere else that Alex would have heard of the devil. We're very careful about media exposure, and her classmates all come from secular families.

We gave her a week of severance pay.

I feel surprisingly crappy for someone who just did the right thing for her child.

Comments

[journeywoman.livejournal.com]

Can I just say this? What a lying bitch. AND she tries to blame it all on the child? Good riddance.

[journeywoman.livejournal.com]

Also: I'm sorry you had to fire her. I've never had to do it, and even when it's completely justified, it cannot possibly be easy. And I'm really sorry that she refused to take any responsibility for her actions, which made it harder for you, though obviously I think that just reinforces the correctness of your decision.

[txanne.livejournal.com]

Precisely.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a parent...you dun good

[joyce.livejournal.com]

predicted that when we try with someone else we will find that Alex simply adjusts poorly to being left and none of this was her fault

(Long, long time lurker here. *waves*) Didn't Alex have a long term nanny that she got along with fine and had no trouble with being left with? What a cow. (The just fired nanny, that is, not the old one. English is inconvenient.)

[saoba.livejournal.com]

Okay- I got to the end of that first paragraph and proceeded to use a long string of words I'd guess you'd rather Alex didn't learn yet.

I very much doubt Alex made up the phone call from the devil. If she really wanted to not have that partucular nanny anymore I think she'd have told you so. Knowing that claiming the nanny had a phone call from the devil would get her fired is just not a child's approach.

Next up- if Alex is adjusting poorly to being left I would expect a competent and caring nanny to bring that information to your attention before (and instead of) using it as a way to try to save her job.

Bad fit is bad fit, her other actions aside. Child care is a highly charged issue for many families. Feeling comfortable with the person you entrust to care for your children a perfectly reasonable baseline.

Finally, it's too bad this didn't work out, for all of your sakes. But your priority is quite reasonably your children. A week of severance pay is generous.

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

Well, it's perfectly normal to feel crappy after any highly negative interaction, even if you were perfectly within the right.

And if you're afraid that she's maybe telling the truth, she's probably being defensive, and probably doesn't get that "god" and "the devil" are big for you.

One of the things that surprised me about the original post was that, when I think back on my childhood, it wouldn't be surprising to hear people use talk about God and the devil to threaten children. It was so normal. She may literally have been blindsided to realize that it was such a major issue. (Which doesn't mean you didn't do the right thing. I mean, that's kind of the point... that she didn't even realize that she was going against your wishes would make it an even harder habit to break.)

[ailbhe]

Her closing lines just reinforce your decision. When Linnea's nursery changed management and I phoned to discuss the fact that Linnea wasn't enjoying it any more, we got a similarly blame-the-child response, and it left me seething.

Alex is totally awesome in every way, and there's no point your ex-nanny trying to tell anyone otherwise. But she obviously takes telling a lot of "little" lies to make her life easier as normal.

I hope your next nanny is better and more reliable.

[boxofdelights]

Do you have a replacement already?

[rivka.livejournal.com]

No. Alex is going to be attending full-day sessions at school for a while, and I will probably take Colin to work with me.

We do have a list of people who responded to our ad, and I need to start calling them. The nanny placement agency turned out to be above our budget - they wanted $1750 in fees for a part-time nanny.

[boxofdelights]

I'm glad the preschool could take Alex.

And well done you for raising Alex so that she could handle "the devil" as one of the stories people tell. I was raised by Catholics who didn't necessarily believe in Hell, and certainly didn't believe in Hell as a place for naughty children, but gave me no defenses against my grandmother's belief in literal eternal fire.

[lyrical1.livejournal.com]

I just sent you a lj email with the woman's contact info that I spoke of. Hope it helps!

[(Anonymous)]

A possibly positive thing about your feeling crappy after your final interaction with the nanny is that since the nanny made you feel that way, you can have even more empathy with how she made Alex feel.

You did do the right thing. Plus even if you misjudged her (which I don't believe for a moment), she's better off finding another employer.

Grandma Susan

[boxofdelights]

I don't know how you could think that Rivka needed any more empathy for Alex.

Being lied to is horrible. Firing someone is unpleasant. Losing your childcare is difficult. Looking for a bright side when someone else is going through all this is... really, really, not kind.

[bosssio.livejournal.com]

Concur with everyone. Firing someone is hard, regardless of the reason. It is insanely stressful. Add onto that the confrontation that goes along firing someone for cause, and it is going to be unpleasant.

Andy just said "firing someone is never easy. Nor should it be. However sometimes it is necessary in order to keep things moving along (especially in this case)."

another perspective - every job has an expiration date. Not everyone is wise enough to notice. The relationship had gone very sour (regardless of reasons), but she just wasn't wise enough to figure it out first.

[chargirlgenius.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you had to go through this. Been there, it's awful. For our part, some of the awful feelings were that we were left wondering how we could have been so wrong in judging her in the first place. But 20/20 vision is so much clearer... Hopefully, you'll be able to feel less crappy quite soon.

[ratphooey.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you feel crappy. You absolutely did the right thing.

[crazysoph.livejournal.com]

Another de-lurking.

I found myself being particularly attentive to a part of the ex-nanny's exit speech:

She denied ever saying anything about the devil, recast the God story to make Alex's comment about the emperor of China the beginning of the conversation, and predicted that when we try with someone else we will find that Alex simply adjusts poorly to being left and none of this was her fault.

That underlined bit sounds very much to me like yet another application of the threat/scare strategy; particularly alarming if she's using it as a way to avoid getting fired or otherwise just not accepting responsibility. I could be reading into it more than is warrented (my own childhood issues, eh?), but after what you reported the previous time, this simply confirms that you've done exactly the correct thing by your child and yourself. I'm sorry you feel badly, but that seems unavoidable, given the personality of the nanny herself.

Crazy(and grateful you've taken the effort to record this where I can read this, and also greatful for your other commenters - so much experience and wisdom!)Soph

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. This very much seems to be her modus operandi. It's frightening that she uses the same techniques with adults as she does with children, and it just proves how singularily unsuited she is for the job.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the fact that she lied to you and tried to manipulate you is ... consistent with how she treated Alex. It all sounds exhausting.

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for saying what I was trying to say earlier in a much clearer way than I did. Of course firing anyone makes you feel crappy and I'm sorry for anyone who has to go through this. But I had intended to be focusing on any portion of the crappy feeling that was due to the particular way the nanny responded rather than on the general situation. I was merely trying to say what the immediately previous posters did: the nanny's behavior when she was told she was going to be fired was consistent with the behavior for which she was being fired. Perhaps this was too obvious to bother pointing out.

I'm extremely sorry if anyone took this wrong way or thought I was being unkind or implying that Rivka lacks empathy. That was definitely not my intent.

Grandma Susan

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Firing someone is always unpleasant, no matter how good an idea it is.

B

[baldanders.livejournal.com]

Oh, man. Of course you did the the right thing. I'm sorry.

[ororo.livejournal.com]

I think feeling crappy is normal in a situation like this. You fired someone, and having been on both ends of that, can say it sucks for both parties. If you're feeling crappy because you felt you used poor judgement in hiring her in the first place, take it easy on yourself. There's no way you could have picked this up from a couple of interviews.

Hugs if you want 'em.