(no subject)

[rivka]

It's stewardship season at church. This year they're doing something called "Appreciative Inquiry," which turns out to be a management consulting thing. Visiting stewards are making face-to-face calls on everyone in the congregation, but instead of talking about our upcoming pledges they're asking questions like "Tell me about a time the church was important in your life," and "What makes you fabulous? What are your gifts?"

Our visiting steward came over last night. We talked, at length, about Michael's considerable gifts and all that he can offer the church. Then it was my turn. "What makes you fabulous?"

"Um... I'm pretty good with the kids. I feel like I've done good things with Religious Education." It sounded lame and useless to my ears, and a long way from fabulous.

I feel so colorless and tired these days. Like my kids have sucked most of the energy out of my life and I'm not even doing that great a job with them. Except that I can't really blame it on them, because look at all the things that people like chargirlgenius and telerib accomplish on top of each having two kids and a full-time job. It's not the kids, it's me.

What do I do? What do I contribute? What can I offer? What are my gifts? Why don't any of these questions even make sense to me right now?

Comments

Eeeeeeuwwwww

[oursin.livejournal.com]

Maybe it is being English, but this approach totally creeps me out - I am not surprised that it made you feel dreadful. 'Fabulous' is about moments, if anything, not a state of being. No-one is fabulous all the time

(And, actually, I do think you are pretty fabulous.)

[nelc.livejournal.com]

You can't think of the answers to these questions because you're depressed, and that's one of the symptoms of depression: that one can't comprehend questions like that, they seem to come from another universe.

Actually, I think being good with kids sounds pretty fabulous all by itself. Re-read some of your journal entries, the ones on your work for example, and I think you'll pick up on some ways that the other Rivka, the non-depressed one, is pretty fabulous, and then remember that that Rivka is you, just with more sleep and exercise.

Also, jeez, end of a long day, kids and work, and some bureaucrat wants an appraisal? You should have made him sit through a Powerpoint presentation.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

You haven't been doing anything with it in the past few years, but your blog contributed to the national debate on the Terri Schiavo case. That's a substantially big deal.

B

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

That being said, "what makes you fabulous" is a pretty creepy question. The other two are much less so.

B

[erikted.livejournal.com]

Ya know, this story may or may not have any relevance to what's going on with you in this moment, but the questions you ask at the end brought to mind for me a conversation I once had with my MD/MSW therapy med-manager person:

Her: What's going on?
Me (glum): I just found out I have a first author paper accepted in Insanely Prestigious Journal
Her (also an academic): ::squee:: Oh wow! That's amazing! That's wonderful! What a coup!
Me: No, actually. It really sucks. I totally fucked this whole thing up. I hate it. I feel totally fake. (long rant about my own miserable performance on project...we interact for a while)
Her: I think you're depressed (we talk more)
Her again: An anhedonic response to getting published as a first author in Insanely Prestigious Journal? Yeah, I think you're depressed.
Me: (suddenly catches the clue brick, still crying) Oh. Yeah. I guess the problems on the project maybe shouldn't totally obliterate that piece.

So anyway, that moment's become a bit of a touchstone for me in checking in with myself. Failure to acknowledge or appreciate anything I do? Mentally undercutting everything I do be telling myself how it could be better, how other people are better, why I should have known/done better, how pointless I am? "Anhedonic response to X accomplishment?" Time to attend to my own mental health. Which for me usually means breaking out my cognitive-behavioral toolkit and to very consciously reframe, reframe, reframe. It can also mean tweaking the meds.

I share the story and my thoughts only because the questions you ask at the end here are pretty much verbatim what goes on in my head when I have moments oh "No actually, what I do really sucks" with no objectivity whatsoever. That's when I now here Sally's voice saying "I think you're depressed."

FWIW, YMMV.

[naomikritzer]

(a) You are so self-evidently fabulous that I can only conclude from this story that you deserve a vacation somewhere sunny and relaxing to restore what by rights should be a healthy sense of self-worth.

(b) Anyone who volunteers to teach OWL does not need to defend the fabulousness of her contributions to ANYONE.

(c) This really does sound like a weird way to raise money.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

You are so self-evidently fabulous that I can only conclude from this story that you deserve a vacation somewhere sunny and relaxing to restore what by rights should be a healthy sense of self-worth.

You know, what I would like right now more than, well, almost anything else in the world is a weekend in a nice hotel. By myself. It would be very quiet and the bed would be spacious and everything i looked at would be clean and uncluttered and there would be no errands to run and I would get lots of sleep and no one would want to nurse at 4am or expect me to discuss the plot of a Disney movie in excruciating detail.

Sadly, this is an unattainable fantasy.

[acceberskoorb.livejournal.com]

are you sure it's unattainable?

even if it was inconvenient for the family and/or for work and/or for church, the value of such a thing seems pretty darn high, yes?

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Are you sure?

Ask Michael.

Are you sure?

I did it once. I was sure I couldn't be spared. It was the best damn thing I ever did.

Strong women can run out of strength. Strong women need a rest, too.

Re nursing: Pump like a mofo before you go. Bring the pump.

[ckd]

Two questions:

1. What are the obstacles that keep you from having this?

2. How can we help you overcome those obstacles?

[ex-serenejo.livejournal.com]

I second this. I think this is probably doable, with help. I'd like to help.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

It's not a matter of finances or such, that people could help with. Colin doesn't sleep through the night. He nurses several times a day. He's not ready to be left overnight.

Also, Michael's life isn't exactly a bed of ease and roses, either. I wouldn't ask him to take on a whole weekend alone with the kids.

[ailbhe]

We swapped it out - a whole weekend for Rob first, who was not lactating, to prepare him for the ordeal ahead, and about 14 hours for me, and it worked pretty well. Our alternatives at the time didn't bear thinking about, so we kind of had to plan for respite, but it really did help.

[nex0s.livejournal.com]

Maybe I am a crap parent- but Jaeger nurses through the night, and several times a day, and I left him with S for five days and he did great.

Maybe you think I'm a crappy parent for doing that - but it was really good for me, and when I came back, I felt happy and re-set inside myself, and ready to be a cohesive Mom again.

BTW: I'm also diagnosed with PPD and taking prozac, so, yeah. I get it.

*gentle hug*

N.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

No, of course I don't think you're a crappy parent! By all evidence you seem to be awesome.

When I say that Colin is not ready to be left overnight, I really just mean Colin. Not other babies. It wouldn't be something that would work right now for our family. Other families TOTALLY vary.

[ailbhe]

It was ok with Linnea, and not with Emer - babies are all different, which is sometimes great and sometimes just a way of making sure that everyone I've learned is wrong.

[kcobweb.livejournal.com]

As someone who is in the middle of an almost-identical fantasy weekend right now (spring break in Burlington! with my old roommate! and no one from my family) - I highly highly recommend it. Talk to Michael and see what might be arranged. Because, OMG, I feel *wonderful* after sitting around for a day with no one pulling on my sleeve. Seriously. So worth it.

[laurarey.livejournal.com]

Yep. I have that fantasy regularly. I've even picked the hotel (The Four Seasons). Just the idea of being able to sleep in a nice, clean, quiet room for as long as I want sounds perfect. Of course, in my five minutes of idle time during the day, I elaborate it to include a massage and a pedicure...and room service....ooo...and a bottle of champagne or better yet, margaritas!

:)

[roozle.livejournal.com]

Oh I have had exactly that fantasy. And at the time it was, totally, a fantasy.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what they're trying to get at with "fabulous." I usually think of that word as a somewhat ironic adjective applied to fashions in popular magazines. That's pretty far from you and your qualities.

Your qualities are many, including what you noted about your abilities with children. You're a superb mother. (Really, you are. Alex and Colin are profoundly lucky in their parents.) You're also an exceptionally intelligent and caring person who has dedicated her life's work to helping disadvantaged urban poor people with AIDS.

Beyond that, you're tenacious. It's the tenacity that keeps you hanging on here in the very tired months (and years) of having very small children. Motherhood is a tough job, and especially so when you put as much thought and effort into it as you do.

[acceberskoorb.livejournal.com]

oh honey no.

*hug*

You are awesome. Objectively. Anyone who knows you could do a kick-ass powerpoint presentation on the ways in which you excel in every aspect of your life [which, though it sounds like hyperbole is, frankly, not.]

I can —literally— count on one hand the number of individuals in the church who do as much for RE as you do (and that's not just this year, but every year) I hope Michael was able to chime in about OWL and teaching RE and the Christmas Pageant (which you singlehandedly made into an invaluable tradition, by the way) Oh, and OWL, and OWL, and OWL. And that's not counting committee work, behind the scenes stuff, financial stewardship and the simple but still astounding fact that y'all are just THERE every week, modeling what it means to be part of the community.

But I know it's not really about the accomplishments, it's about being able to feel like you contribute and when you are depressed there's nothing in the world that can make you FEEL it. Between the now of feeling numb and the future of remembering you are awesome, I hope you can hold on with both hands and just let your friends and family carry you though. We remember how great you are, even when you forget.

[acceberskoorb.livejournal.com]

I don't want to derail the conversation from the heart of the point, which is how Rivka is feeling, but I do feel a little compelled to defend the appreciative inquiry process in light of some of the comments here. The idea behind using this process is that church leadership is trying to figure out how to make church better and how to make it a place where people can feel more involved and be more supported by the community. This is as opposed to both a) so, how much money are you going to give us this year? and b) tell us what is wrong with church. It's meant to be a positive process that lifts up and discovers the good.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Yes, but asking people to tell what's wonderful about themselves to non-friends is a VERY BAD way of doing this, and is hell on wheels for introverts.

If you're going to do that, you should be sending somebody who already knows what's fabulous about Rivka. There is NO EXCUSE for the steward not to know about Rivka's substantial contributions to the sex-ed program.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

It wasn't the steward, who was quite lovely and very appreciative of the things I have done. It's my internal process.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

In that case, just sincere sympathy; that's my mental process, too. I go into a tailspin whenever asked to (in any way) praise or justify myself.

[pnh.livejournal.com]

"asking people to tell what's wonderful about themselves to non-friends is a VERY BAD way of doing this, and is hell on wheels for introverts"

Jesus Christ yes. Yes.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Um... how many Americans are *trained out* of calling themselves fabulous? How many people are simply introverts and don't think that way?

I spiral into depression twice a year when I do a self-eval for work, and they aren't asking me why I'm (ugh) fabulous.

Um. Kids. Really, not so much the kids. The @#$@#$# Lydia situation is grabbing 75% and I suspect the kids are getting the other 35% (math error intentional).

So. What are your gifts?

In spite of being a young working mother (meaning 2 toddlers), you are finding the strength to give back to the church. Do you *know* how rare that is? You have a demanding job, you have two children in the most demanding ages, and yet you find time to do not just "work with children" but emotionally-draining work with children that requires extensive preparation (think of the workshops you've done) and careful thought (think of the "ghetto" comment).

Honest to God, Rivka, you're fabulous. When I had two toddlers, all I did was eat, sleep, and interact, and sometimes the interact part got thrown to the winds.

fabulous and functional

[365postcards.livejournal.com]

What makes the word "fabulous" strange choice for me is that unlike "functional" that can be all embracing, fabulous seems to force not just a scale of achievements, but also judging all the LESS fabulous people.

Of course - just yesterday I was talking with my sister, who studies to be a social worker and I was telling her about how the medical science has helped to make your life so much more fabulous than it could have been without surgeries.

Well, and actually you ARE fabulous in breaking the belief that "educated people NEVER bore others with stories about their children!", as you have recorded the development of a person from the very beginning and proved that with good writing skills the mothers do not have be silent about their motherhood, that recording and sharing the childhood is both entertaining and useful for readers also.

And now you are being fabulous by not being judgmental of all those people who have not achieved as much as you, yet you refuse to look down on them by calling yourself better than them, fabulous comparing to those others.

You are also fabulous in recording your tiredness and doubt - as I can bet that there are more than one person at this moment beating herself with: "I am useless - look at rivka with job and children and scientific degree. She can do it, so it is possible and compared to her I am worthless person, waste of food and space on earth!"

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

I strongly concur with those who say that this points to depression, or exhaustion, or something. Your perceptions are skewed, and you can't even feel what it's like when they aren't.

Please take care of yourself, and please remember that your restedness and mental/emotional/spiritual well-being are *very* valuable, and worth spending money and other resources on. This is your health we're talking about, even if it's not immediately, directly physical.

[shandra.livejournal.com]

I don't really know you although I've been reading your LJ for years but I can honestly say that you are fabulous, and that working a high-stress job where you have to be putting grant applications out + two kids + all that you went through breastfeeding etc. = a fabulous person who needs a break.

In that vein I'll share my little epiphany on this one. I have one child, who was born after a hellish 1.5 years (a full-term pregnancy + post-natal loss, two moves). When I went back to work full-time in a new, demanding job, I toddled along for about a year. And then I got depressed and sick, sick, sick. I struggled along with that for a while feeling like I had some kind of problem doing what so many parents - with more kids - do.

Then I got sent on a press trip. Press trips are not exactly relaxing as they schedule you like crazy, but this press trip's schedule included horseback riding in the Laurentians. Up for that hour's ride, I remembered that there was a ME under the good worker/good parent/housekeeper/cook/etc. Since then I have made a more conscious effort to do something every month for me (something simple like reading the paper alone in a coffee shop) and I feel like I'm getting my feet under me (it helps that my son is almost 5 too, and I know you have a long way to go with your little guy).

I really really recommend that you work with Michael to get you at least a day and preferably an overnight just to BE, by yourself. I'd be happy to lend you a guest room although being in Toronto it's pretty far, but probably you have friends who would happily do that and let you alone. It sounds clicheed and dumb but it REALLY REALLY helps to get a chunk of time that is not in one of your roles.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

I don't care if those are rhetorical questions, I'm going to answer.

You didn't quit your job, and you didn't give yourself up to Lydia. You kept escalating your concerns articulately over and over and higher and higher until you are starting to get glimpses of justice, like the parable of the woman and the unjust judge.

And now that it's starting to be safe to do so, you're looking at her behaviour with clearer eyes and the DSM, which has got to be horrifying.

You taught little-kids RE and you led OWL well enough that they wanted you back. You organized two Christmas pageants, including the scriptwriting for at least one of them.

You see the blessings of living downtown and you share that with your family and friends. You savour good food and share that, and you make some of it yourself.

You are a good writer. You write effective grant proposals, evocative images of your life and other people's lives, and persuasive logical blog posts.

Your recent post reminiscing about alt.callahans illustrated how much you value instances of community, and the skills you use to maintain it.

[txanne.livejournal.com]

I agree with all previous comments, especially the parts about Lydia-as-energy-vampire.

And Rivka, think about all the fabulous (gack, what a silly word) people who love you. As for me, I have always been slightly in awe of you, and having spent time in your presence, it's escalated to adoration. You really are terrific.

[lydy.livejournal.com]

I could never answer the question "What's fabulous about you." It's a dreadful question for anyone with the least bit of doubt or depression. What everybody says about you being fabulous is true. Don't feel too bad about not being able to answer a clueless question.

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

I second, third, and 25th the excellent comments everyone else has made. But I'd also like to just say that I really feel the same way a lot of the time. I'm so busy with Things That Must Be Done that I get bored of myself. My very dreams get boring, with nothing to work through. My imagination feels dead and buried under the weight of the laundry in the basement. You're not alone. But I'm pretty sure this period in our lives is finite and we'll get out the other end and have interest and energy left over to be interesting to ourselves. And I don't have a Lydia in my life to deal with.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Wow, you really do understand exactly where I'm coming from. This helps, thanks.

[365postcards.livejournal.com]

Oh, that is so it! It can be so scary to make inventory of the dreams and ideas that one has and to come up only with a shopping list and a to do list.

The funny thing is - I did not know how tired I was. Only looking back do I see that the way I used to tell to myself: "3 children are so much better than 3 cats - as in 10 years children will be their own persons and if I had 3 cats, then I would still have to look after them 10 years later!"

[wiredferret.livejournal.com]

Yes, that. Also, I am starting to come out the other side, and it's amazing. Sure, my kids need a lot of the time I am home, but I can now engage in projects that are interesting to me, with them. They can self-entertain. They can teach me things, not in the life-lessons way, but in the way that they legitimately know how to do things that I don't.

I remember very vividly, thinking that I HAD to find some time to read books, because otherwise I had no conversation and other adults would laugh at me. It got better!

[ailbhe]

I think even one overnight would be a really, really, really good idea. A weekend would be better. If you have reached the point where you're so drained you can't see all the things you are and do and give, your family needs you to have a rest, even if you think you don't deserve them to give you one.

We have a "call from the ambulance" rule. There are times when I need a break badly enough that no phonecalls from home are allowed unless they are already in the ambulance on the way to A&E. Weirdly, instigating this rule gave Rob a ton more confidence handling both children at once (it turns out that when you have to do it, you do it), but it's possible Michael already has that confidence.

[telerib.livejournal.com]

because look at all the things that people like chargirlgenius and telerib accomplish on top of each having two kids and a full-time job.

*ded from laff* Is that how it looks? Because on my end, I sit around thinking how absolutely awesome it is that you're so involved with teaching RE (and not just your own kid's class, either), running the Christmas pageant, and being well and truly connected with your community - you know, the honest-to-goodness 'making a difference' stuff that I'm, um, not doing - all while gracefully dealing with Work Hell and the usual menu of parenting challenges. You totally rock.