Teaching disability and sexuality.
Jan. 27th, 2008 09:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Not posted to the OWL filter.
I know I have some very smart, very clued-in people with disabilities on my Friends List. I'm pleading with you to help me fix the one messed-up session in OWL, the grades 7-9 sex ed class I'm teaching. Feel free to point other friends here, if you think they may have helpful comments.
So, Session 7 of OWL is supposed to be about "Disability and Other Diversity Issues." And it's... not very good. It reads as if they knew they ought to have some disability awareness stuff in the curriculum, but didn't know enough about it - or weren't comfortable enough with it - to address it in a way that would be meaningful or engaging for the kids.
There's one good activity: a "What Would You Do" thing where the kids privately note how they'd respond to a variety of situations which might take them outside of their comfort zones, and then there's a group discussion of each scenarios. The scenarios include things like "a really attractive person in your neighborhood who has a very different religious life asks you out - what would you do?" and "you're looking for a seat in the cafeteria and see a group of classmates who are bilingual Haitians. As you get ready to join them, you notice that they're all speaking French. What would you do?" ...So that one's fine. I think it'll draw the kids in and spark some good discussion.
The other half of the session is devoted to a story: a personal account of a 17-year-old disabled girl talking, in detail, about her first romantic relationship and losing her virginity. We're supposed to read this lengthy story to the kids (you can read part of it here, if you do "search inside" for the phrase "Prince Charming") and then draw them into a discussion. As the OWL discussion guide condescendingly notes: "Antoine had a lot of exposure to people in wheelchairs. His knowledge and experience reduced his anxiety and fear and increased his comfort. He was able to see beyond the wheelchair to see the person - Ofelia. How wonderful!"
Okay, gag me.
Beyond the irritating discussion guide, though, the whole "activity" doesn't sit well with me. The passivity of it. The use of one person's experience to represent the entire world of disability. The, uh, lurid aspects of the story, which I think will embarrass our kids rather than teaching them anything. And the... I can't really express this well, but the way the whole segment is set up seems intended to evoke a sort of sickly-reverential "oooh, the things people like that have to deal with - she must be so strooooong" reaction. It doesn't seem like it gives the kids any kind of toehold to engage with disability issues in any kind of honest way.
So Adrian and I agreed to keep the "What Would You Do" activity and scrap the rest of the session. In its place, I want to present a different reading, or a couple of short readings, and a brief discussion/presentation of disability and sexuality issues. Then I want to do some Values Voting with the kids, since we did it last week and they loved the whole concept. In Values Voting, you designate parts of the room to mean "Strongly Agree," "Strongly Disagree," and the whole spectrum in between. You read out a statement, and the kids take up a physical position in the room that corresponds to their opinion. Then you draw out opinions from (hopefully) different parts of the spectrum.
Here's where I need your help:
1. I need readings. Anyone got anything they love? I knew I'd lent out my copy of With the Power of Each Breath years ago and never gotten it back, but I foolishly assumed that our library would have it. Nope.
2. I have three "Values Voting" statements. Please critique them, fix the wording, and suggest any better, or additional, ideas:
a) Mentally retarded people shouldn't have sexual contact, because they're not really able to give consent.
b) It's fine for disabled people to have children, even if the disability might be inherited.
c) Being in a relationship with someone who is seriously disabled would just be too hard. (Possible alternate wording: "It takes someone really special to be willing to have a relationship with a disabled person.")
I want to make this a good, engaging, educational experience for the kids. But I'm a little nervous about, um, how far inside I am on this issue. It makes it hard to know exactly what's going to be appropriate and helpful.
So... help?
I know I have some very smart, very clued-in people with disabilities on my Friends List. I'm pleading with you to help me fix the one messed-up session in OWL, the grades 7-9 sex ed class I'm teaching. Feel free to point other friends here, if you think they may have helpful comments.
So, Session 7 of OWL is supposed to be about "Disability and Other Diversity Issues." And it's... not very good. It reads as if they knew they ought to have some disability awareness stuff in the curriculum, but didn't know enough about it - or weren't comfortable enough with it - to address it in a way that would be meaningful or engaging for the kids.
There's one good activity: a "What Would You Do" thing where the kids privately note how they'd respond to a variety of situations which might take them outside of their comfort zones, and then there's a group discussion of each scenarios. The scenarios include things like "a really attractive person in your neighborhood who has a very different religious life asks you out - what would you do?" and "you're looking for a seat in the cafeteria and see a group of classmates who are bilingual Haitians. As you get ready to join them, you notice that they're all speaking French. What would you do?" ...So that one's fine. I think it'll draw the kids in and spark some good discussion.
The other half of the session is devoted to a story: a personal account of a 17-year-old disabled girl talking, in detail, about her first romantic relationship and losing her virginity. We're supposed to read this lengthy story to the kids (you can read part of it here, if you do "search inside" for the phrase "Prince Charming") and then draw them into a discussion. As the OWL discussion guide condescendingly notes: "Antoine had a lot of exposure to people in wheelchairs. His knowledge and experience reduced his anxiety and fear and increased his comfort. He was able to see beyond the wheelchair to see the person - Ofelia. How wonderful!"
Okay, gag me.
Beyond the irritating discussion guide, though, the whole "activity" doesn't sit well with me. The passivity of it. The use of one person's experience to represent the entire world of disability. The, uh, lurid aspects of the story, which I think will embarrass our kids rather than teaching them anything. And the... I can't really express this well, but the way the whole segment is set up seems intended to evoke a sort of sickly-reverential "oooh, the things people like that have to deal with - she must be so strooooong" reaction. It doesn't seem like it gives the kids any kind of toehold to engage with disability issues in any kind of honest way.
So Adrian and I agreed to keep the "What Would You Do" activity and scrap the rest of the session. In its place, I want to present a different reading, or a couple of short readings, and a brief discussion/presentation of disability and sexuality issues. Then I want to do some Values Voting with the kids, since we did it last week and they loved the whole concept. In Values Voting, you designate parts of the room to mean "Strongly Agree," "Strongly Disagree," and the whole spectrum in between. You read out a statement, and the kids take up a physical position in the room that corresponds to their opinion. Then you draw out opinions from (hopefully) different parts of the spectrum.
Here's where I need your help:
1. I need readings. Anyone got anything they love? I knew I'd lent out my copy of With the Power of Each Breath years ago and never gotten it back, but I foolishly assumed that our library would have it. Nope.
2. I have three "Values Voting" statements. Please critique them, fix the wording, and suggest any better, or additional, ideas:
a) Mentally retarded people shouldn't have sexual contact, because they're not really able to give consent.
b) It's fine for disabled people to have children, even if the disability might be inherited.
c) Being in a relationship with someone who is seriously disabled would just be too hard. (Possible alternate wording: "It takes someone really special to be willing to have a relationship with a disabled person.")
I want to make this a good, engaging, educational experience for the kids. But I'm a little nervous about, um, how far inside I am on this issue. It makes it hard to know exactly what's going to be appropriate and helpful.
So... help?
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 02:28 am (UTC)Hmm, this strikes me as covering such a large spectrum as to not be useful in any kind of vote. There's no way I could answer it with a simple agree/disgree -- just how mentally disabled are they? If they are living independently, I'd have no issues with them sleeping with whoever they want. Disabled enough to require custodial care, I'd be really wary of relationships with noncustodials because of the power differential, yet I wouldn't want to deny sexuality to the many people in group homes... it strikes me as a better *discussion* topic than voting topic.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 07:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 02:38 am (UTC)as a data point, i recently went out on a few dates with someone who needs a hip replacement and also on a few dates with someone who was a heavy smoker. the smoker was *waaaay* harder to deal with...
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Date: 2008-01-28 03:25 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-28 03:02 am (UTC)Have you read "Too Late to Die Young" by Harriet McBryd Johnson? She doesn't talk about her sexuality, but she talks about the sensual pleasures that are unique to her life (vs. those of an able-bodied person) in a really interesting way. She's probably best known for her essay Unspeakable Conversations, about her debate with Peter Singer. Each chapter of her book is a cohesive story. She is, however, an old lady by teenager standards.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 03:05 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-28 03:24 am (UTC)The first voting values statement might read better as "People with metal disabilities should not have sexual contact as they are not aware of exactly what it may entail and are thus not able to give permission"
I suspect you have access to alot of online journals?
You could see if a journal like "Journal of Religion, Disability and Health" has something you could use.
Anyhow I'll shut up now and let you get on with being awesome.
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Date: 2008-01-28 06:08 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-28 03:26 am (UTC)I recall realizing a particular person I knew was an alien when zie explained that zie was considering a divorce because zir spouse was having health issues which were chronic and disabling and zie said 'I am not the kind of person who can be in a relationship with someone who is sick or disabled'.
And because I am Ms. Not Always Tactful Woman I replied 'Then you are not someone who should expect a long term relationship because people do not come with factory warranties.'
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Date: 2008-01-28 02:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2008-01-29 05:34 am (UTC) - ExpandOk, here goes.
Date: 2008-01-28 03:41 am (UTC)a). Having looked over the UUA's OWL links that you provided, I wonder whether you'd be better off couching this one in terms of what are good, and what are bad, reasons for entering into a relationship with someone mentally disabled. This was touched upon by one of your other readers (the power discrepancy thing), but I think that possibly putting the issue in terms of the responsibility of respecting the integrity of both yourself and your potential partner might produce an interesting discussion.
b). I'd personally say that it's nobody's G.D. business but the couple's whether they have kids or not, instead of going with that it's fine (that suggests that there's a valid argument for saying that it's not fine), but that should hardly surprise you. :)
c). I'd go with the first version, as I think that you want kids to open up to their worries, rather than not speak 'em because they don't want to give what they think's the wrong answer. Then again, I have no idea if that's normally a problem for your program.
Hope this helps.
Moe
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Date: 2008-01-28 03:48 am (UTC)It might be useful to compile a variety of readings, if people could suggest, have the students each read one or two, and share their general impressions of the reading and answers to a few questions we developed. What do you think? This way, they could hear/learn about a variety of issues without a huge chunk of time.
Quite honestly, when I was going over the lesson in general, I was thinking that one session is waaay too short a time to cover the whole spectrum of issues that they seem to be trying to cover in one session. I suppose the whole point is to address the value of all persons being sexual, which makes sense.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 04:21 am (UTC)Speaking for a more personal take on it, line c really hit me. I'm not entirely sure which way would be better for evoking the response/discussion you're looking for - it kind of depends, as someone else mentioned, whether they would be apt to get into a valuable discussion of _why_ they deem it "too hard" and what that means to different people, or it would be easier to go in through the positive door, and try to dissect why we put partners of disabled people on some sort of pedestal. I'm leaning towards the former, but I'm certainly not a teacher, and I don't know these kids or the rest of the curriculum.
I can, however, state emphatically that I have gotten rather sick of that attitude in my own life. *wrygrin* I hear "oh, I just wouldn't be able to handle that" from some of my closest friends, and others have tried to 'help' me by encouraging me to break up with my SO, or declared me to be "an angel" when I indicated that I had no intention of doing so, thank you very much.
I personally would really like to see not only a story from the perspective of someone in a wheelchair, or with some other notable physical disability, but a more realistic view from the other side. Because it _isn't_ easy. And you do have to see the person, not the disability. But phrasing it that rather preachy way just glosses over the realities, both of it being a relationship like any other, with strong and weak points, and the very real challenges of pairing with a disabled person - the activity restrictions, the strange looks, the special health considerations or extra worries, etc.
ahem. Sorry. Got a tad wordy. :) At any rate, if there's something in particular you're looking for, or need to flesh out an activity or some other tidbit, the boy is quite willing to see what he can find, if he knows the parameters and time restrictions you're working with.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 08:07 pm (UTC)Yeah, this is the kind of thing I was talking about in my other comment.
Also, once when I was at university, one of my dorm-mates found out my SO was in a wheelchair, and blurted out "but how do you have sex?!?!" - at the time I was so gobsmacked I just said "how is that any of your business?" but later I wished I'd said "Creatively." Because that's the biggest component I've observed in having a relationship (sexual or otherwise) with someone who has disability issues (to whatever degree.) You just have to be willing to be creative and mentally flexible about your expectations of how things are going to happen and when and so on.
I mean, from a purely sexual point of view- there are how many positions in the Kama Sutra? Plus there's a lot of things you can do which have a sensual or sexual element which may not fall into the traditional concept of 'having sex'.
I don't know if it would fit into the framework of the lesson, but one thing I've noticed as someone who has gone out with folks who are visibly disabled (particularly when they're in a wheelchair) is the tendency of people to talk to the apparently able-bodied companion rather than the person in the chair. So that might be something to address somehow. Maybe a 'what would you do?' type thing?
(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-28 05:21 am (UTC)Good comments, and honestly when in the "parental evaluation" OWL parents meeting, I had some similar comments about the slides picturing people in wheelchairs, etc, and the readings supposed to g with them. It seemed really "token" to both my husband and I.
Disabilities take many forms, and not all of them are obvious.
My 12 year old daughter is autistic, and REALLY likes physical contact. What would a teen do if she came up to one of them and playfully suggested something sexual? She can't communicate that yet, but it won't be many years before she can.
So what if a guy's in a wheelchair. Well, you can't just ignore the wheelchair. Would it be appropriate to explore that movie "Coming Home" I think it was, about the wheelchair-bound vet. Maybe some readings from John Callahan's book "Don't Worry, He Won't Get Far On Foot - the Autobiography of a Dangerous Man." He's a quadroplegic, and is VERY open in the book about its effect on his sex life. Funny, bitter, and in the end also life-affirming - but realistic about his life.
What if someone's blind? Or deaf? Or has something like dwarfism, acromegaly, or some other physical difference? There's a variety of disabilities out there which could have an effect on social interactions, dating, etc - and maybe the OWL program doesn't have time to explore them, but honestly I wish there was a way to do it.
Good luck!
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 06:04 am (UTC)2. a) This is a huge can of worms to open for discussion, but, as stated, is too black-and-white. I used to work with mentally retarded adults back in the late 80's when some of the lawsuits and rulings about them having the right to have sex started making headlines. There are no easy answers.
b) Do you have an "it ain't nobody's business" section of the room for values voting?
c) I hate both wordings, but the second one is especially annoying. I'm married to a man who happens to be totally blind. It's not "too hard" and I'm not "really special." What it takes to have a relationship with a disabled person is the same as what it takes to have a relationship with anyone else--the maturity to do what's necessary to foster, grow, and maintain that relationship.
Does this unit completely forget that people have relationships with other people and some of those people might have abilities that are vastly different than their own? I married Chris, not his disability (I forget he's blind because he's so independent most of the time). And even if my dad was an amputee before I was born, he's my dad first.
Treating a disability any differently than any other difference amongst people makes no sense to me.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 03:48 am (UTC)I think that's supposed to be the message of the session-in-general; it's just making sure that the activities express that message can be tricky.
Keep in mind that the Values Voting statements are absolutely not supposed to be things we're trying to get the kids to espouse. We're trying to spark discussion, debate, and (to borrow a 60's term) "values clarification." It's okay for that to include cans-of-worms and obnoxious statements.
(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-28 09:05 am (UTC)(2)(a) "Mentally retarded" is a potentially offensive term. The suggested "mental disability" wording is interesting because some mental disabilities (e.g., dyslexia) don't affect the ability to give consent. (And it might be an interesting way into a discussion that "disability" isn't a monolithic thing.)
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 01:27 pm (UTC)Potential offense aside, I think I'd keep the "mentally retarded" wording, unless there is another phrase that accurately conveys the degree of mental disability you mean. You would know far, far better than I what the right clinical expression is.
I only wonder about including the "because" clause. I'd think that would be something you'd want the kids to come up with on their own, as part of a potential reason for Strongly Disagreeing. Unless the intent of the question is to explore the possibility of consent, rather than other potential reasons why they think mentally retarded people should/should not have sexual contact?
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 03:53 am (UTC)I think exploring the possibility of consent, or of levels of consent, is the really interesting question. The default assumption is often that people with mental retardation should be treated like children, with sexual contact being completely out of the question. But we're often talking about people who are physically mature, can express liking and affection, enjoy pleasurable sensations, express sexual attraction, and so forth. Is it fair to say that because someone doesn't have the cognitive capacity to manage her own finances that she doesn't have the cognitive capacity to want, and have, a boyfriend? ...And so on.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 02:40 pm (UTC)When I was in college, there was a guy who had muscular dystrophy. I remember him confiding to me that although he was completely wheelchair bound and couldn't lift his hand to his face, he very much wanted the eligible bachelorettes out there to know that his penis did in fact work.
Another good one, although touchy for you, "It would be gross to have sex while pregnant/with a pregnant woman."
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 09:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 06:25 pm (UTC)Also, I hope you'll mention mental health problems, which are every bit as disabling as physical health problems. To be honest, most of my physical health stuff doesn't impact on people outside my body, whereas dealing with the mental health stuff is difficult for partners. And there are consent issues when a person is insufficiently or incorrectly medicated and has lost their usual ability to reason.
Also, social vs medical model of disability? Looking at it from a social model perspective could take away some of that "oh, you must be sooo special to deal with an impaired partner"? *gag*
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 07:05 pm (UTC)THANK YOU, yes. This really does need saying as well. Thank you for articulating something I wouldn't have said as well.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 07:03 pm (UTC)I went and looked through the book, and to save anyone else having to battle Amazon, the whole of the relevant section about sexual behaviour goes:
The instant he starts putting me in the bed, it flashes through my mind, "I don't want to be here." I don't say anything. Antoine is good. He doesn't push me. Still, sex is not wonderful. Since I can't walk, the hymen never stretches. His penis inside me really hurts. Afterward I'm, like, that's it? I try to hide from Antoine that it takes so long before the hurt goes away. He asks me, "How was it? Tell the truth." "Well, it was not what I expected," I say.
So I'm not sure how the discussion is going to go, but what an able-bodied reader is presumably going to take away from this is presumably:
1) that sex (defined exclusively as penis in vagina) is going to be painful for disabled people
2) but that they are going to lie and say it doesn't hurt to save your feelings
3) and also that they don't actually want to have sex but won't say anything about that to save your feelings.
Or in summary, "disabled people don't want to have sex, are hurt by having sex, and only have sex to save the feelings of their able-bodied partners". I think I would be insulted if I was physically disabled, and I think as an able-bodied person I'd come away wondering why anyone would be so cruel to a disabled person as to allow a relationship with them to go beyond the platonic.
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Date: 2008-01-28 08:05 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2008-01-28 08:24 pm (UTC)What you could do is consider whether the section wants to define people by their disabilities or by the accomodations that a partner would need to make for them mentally or physically.
I'll go against the stream here and note that the alternate wording provided in c) concerns me. It's positive, true, but it also seems to be putting emphasis a little too heavily on the specialness of the ablebodied partner. I'd reword it to de-emphasize the personhood, myself, and concentrate on the willingness to accomodate, per above.
Suggestion: "It takes a special effort to have a relationship with a disabled person when compared with an ablebodied person."
In other words, emphasize that anyone can have a relationship with a person with disabilities if they're willing to put the honest effort into it just as with any other relationship. Long distance, different social group/culture, upbringing, whatnot. And then use it as a hook to discuss diversity.
I'm not sure how much of this you can pound into their heads at that age, but it's never too early to start with deprogramming them from the idea that disability means they're some saint, asexual, or otherwise untouchable/unattainable.
ETA: You can probably tell that the 'specialness' trope drives me batshit. ;)
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 03:58 am (UTC)Hee. Yeah, I get you.
Remember that the Values Voting statements aren't supposed to be beliefs we're actually promulgating - they're statements which are supposed to be controversial and spark debate. We talk over why people might fall on all points of the spectrum in their responses.
But yeah, I see that statement (c) is triggering a lot of emotion from several different people.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 08:34 pm (UTC)It also deals with the fact that in many countries around the world, PWD are seen as having no marriage prospects and therefore are ineligible for reproductive counseling, etc. They are also the most victimized of groups, and the most vulnerable, especially when the barriers to involvement in community are high. It is written from the social model of disability perspective, by the woman who created USAID's Integration of persons with disabilities policy.
It all may be too far afield for your OWL needs. You have some excellent advice already.
http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/cross-cutting_programs/wid/gender/wwd.html
Also, on the "b) It's fine for disabled people to have children, even if the disability might be inherited." question, there are really three issues to explore:
1. issues around potentially passing on a genetic disability (which goes straight into a eugenics conversation).
2. conceiving and birthing a child you may not be able to care for "on your own" (which goes straight to questions about "affording" children, who pays for them, etc.).
3. when (if ever) do we have the right to tell others when they can and cannot have children?
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 05:00 am (UTC)(I believe he was referring mainly to situations in which there's limited family history of the disease- where there is a strong family history he seemed more in favor of it, from the point of view of then being prepared to monitor the child from a very young age, as many of the diseases he treats can be managed if caught in the early stages.)
Anyway, I'm not sure how I feel about his pov, but as a data point. :)
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 11:19 pm (UTC)I haven't seen the film, but it has good reviews:
"Forbidden Wedding captures the experience of trying to find love as a person with a disability, to the love of a community, country, and filmmaker. Love for others comes together to support a couple brave enough to fight a public battle to sanctify their love for each other and for freedom of sexual expression. In the end, Forbidden Wedding documents the essence of a loving relationship where each individual knows the other and accepts him or her fully."
It's won numerous awards:
Best Documentary, Projection International Film Festival, 2004
Award of Excellence. BRASA flm Festival, 2004
Latino Film Festival of The San Francisco Bay Area
New York International Latino Film Festival
Urbanworld Film Festival, 2002
London Disability Film Festival 2002
The Women in the Director's Chair International Film and Video Festival, Chicago, 2002
Festival Internacional De Cine De Cartagena, Colombia, 2002
Margaret Mead Film Festival, New York, 2001
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 01:49 am (UTC)And that is particularly relevant here, given all the stuff about "specialness" and seeing past the disability, but I'd argue that pity isn't a good basis for a relationship regardless of disability or the causes of the pity.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 03:03 am (UTC)I'm quite sure his wife didn't think he'd be like this when they got married.
My disability is mostly invisible. Only physical therapists or people who watch people carefully notice that I place my hands for support or stabilization so I don't fall down. I've had a lot of people tell me that if I lost weight, I wouldn't need the handicapped parking tag which is when I tell them they've confused cause and effect.
There are so many disabilities that I can't imagine how you can get through this in one session. I think the thing you have to aim for is that people are still people whether they're smart, disabled, athletic, etc., or not, and we respect people in sex as well as in public.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 05:06 am (UTC)I agree, and might also add a mention some where that there ARE invisible disabilities and also ones where your level of ability may vary dramatically- it's easy to get caught up in thinking of disabilities as only ones which are very obvious right away, like wheelchair users, but obviously that's not the case.
Perhaps discuss also a situtation where you may have been dating someone for a while and only find out once you're involved that the person as ability issues sometimes? Would you break up with them? Would you expect them to warn you on the first date that sometimes they use a cane/wheelchair/whatever? What if you were dating someone and they became disabled while you were dating? Would you suddenly feel differently?
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 04:12 am (UTC)Venus on Wheels.
It's the account of a parapalegic lesbian.
I don't know that it's quite what you want, but it's certainly an interesting book.
TK
no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 12:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-01-29 06:03 pm (UTC)I wonder if that could be (should be?) played from another angle.
A lot of people put off other people's sex lives as unimportant. It's not too hard; there's a lot of sexual self-sacrifice preached in our culture.
I wonder if it might provoke deeper thoughts if it was played from a denial angle.
"Mentally retarded people should be denied any form of sexual content, in case they're unable to give consent."
But I don't know. Maybe I'm just not trusting the kids to recognize the bind such a statement creates without additional prompting.