rivka | Conversations with the big-sister-in-waiting.

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Conversations with the big-sister-in-waiting.

Alex: What will the new baby say if it wants a toy?
Me: It might say "Uhhh!", or it might reach for the toy, or it might cry.
Alex: I would bring it a baby toy and say "Here, you can play with this!" And I would have a big bag of baby toys, and I would say, "You can have all of them."
Me: You have it all planned out, what kind of big sister you'll be. ...So, do you think you might ever get angry at the new baby?
Alex: No. Getting angry is Mama and Papa's job. My job is going to be giving toys to the baby.

(Here I have to interject something. I am fully aware that Michael and I don't come off very well when our poor innocent lamb describes our primary parenting role as "getting angry." But you must know that this is a child who, this very afternoon, responded to "I told you to stop biting the pillows" with "I'm not biting it, I'm just spitting on it."

...Go ahead. Try to tell me that your parenting role would subsequently be described as "smiling seraphically and exuding unconditional positive regard." I dare you.)

At any rate, the conversation continued:

Me: Well, suppose that you really wanted Mama to play dollhouse with you, and I said, "I'm sorry, I can't play right now because I have to feed the baby."
Alex: I would just play with my Dad.
Me: But do you think you might be a little angry, and think, "That baby is in the way!"
Alex: (sounding genuinely bewildered): Why would I think that?

I'm not trying to induce sibling rivalry, here. But when we talk about life with the Niblet, which is often at Alex's instigation, she paints an incredibly rosy picture of it. She thinks having a new baby in the family will be the neatest thing ever. Well, me too, except that I also know that it can be rocky for, especially, a previously-only-older-child to adjust. I want to at least open the door to the idea that her feelings may not be 100% positive 100% of the time, and that negative feelings are okay... without setting up the assumption that older kids automatically hate the baby, either.

Sibling advice, from parents of more than one?

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I had almost identical conversations with Claire when Julia was in utero, complete with readings of "Julius, the Baby of the World" and similar sibling theme lit. I was fully prepared for jealousy and angst.

It... I won't say it never came, because they certainly squabble. But the then-3yo was just unbelievably gracious and generous with the new arrival. If she needed attention she would say "Can Daddy take Jules while I sit with you?"

I take no credit for this; Claire welcomed her sister with great love and kindness, and the credit's all hers. But I think having possible negative feelings acknowledged ahead of time helped smooth the transition.

We kind of went off reading "Julius" though...

You're doing fine.

wtfpotatoes is only 18 months younger than her older-previously-only brother, so we didn't do a lot of preparing him for her, but the kind of language I used with him is the kind I see you using with Alex. Things like, "Yeah, I know. Babies are SO inconvenient and frustrating sometimes, aren't they? But I have to take care of her now, because she can't take care of herself, and then it will be your turn." or "It's okay to be angry with your sister, but it is VERY not okay for you to push her. If you're angry with her, what are you supposed to do?" "Tell a gwown-up." "That's right."

Edited 2008-08-16 23:20 (UTC)

My dad prepared my then four-year-old brother for the arrival of my sister by asking him if, when he got a new toy and spent a lot of time playing with it, did he stop liking his other toys? My brother's response was "of course not!" Dad explained that the new baby would be like that; Mom and Dad would spend a lot of time taking care of the baby, but they still loved us two older kids just as much as before.

Dad concluded with, "So if you're ever feeling left out, all you have to do is come up to me and say, 'Daddy, I need a hug,' and I'll give you one."

My brother apparently responded "Okay" as if he didn't think it'd be an issue, but about three days after my sister was born, he went up to Dad and said "Daddy, I need a hug".

(They ended up getting along great.)

We went with complete brainwashing, that being a big brother was the best thing ever. We played it that being a big brother was something he was achieving because he's big now.

It worked pretty well - the two of them get along quite well. Obviously, we didn't just leave it at that when Charlie came along, and we talked about the reality of having a baby, but the initial brainwash seemed to work. :)

Two kids, 3 year gap, both girls here.

My eldest was very positive about her sister as a baby despite the noise and inconvenience, until her sister became old enough (mobile, grabby, verbal) to have power struggles with her. For the past 4 years she has hated her sister in a rather annoying and depressing manner... only just recently (they are now 6 and 9) has the heartfelt, all encompassing "I hate her" tapered off into more of a sort of shorthand for "I want attention" or "I want one of those too" or "my sister has lots of friends at school and I've just had a falling out with my friends" and isn't about wishing her little sister would disappear completely and things go back as they were.

The best times, the times I think that make the difference and led to the rivalry diminishing, have been when they've been able to do fun stuff together without adults involved. For instance, when they hang out together in their bedroom, sitting on one of their beds and singing pop songs together. Now I like to buy them similar or the same Nintendo DS games so they can co-operate over that. I try to plan so as to get them interacting that way, sharing their world of childhood with the focus off the grownups. I send them to extra-curricular activities that give them shared experiences and skills they are both working on at the same time without us parents involved too much.

I don't think it works as an approach so well on younger kids... or at least it is harder to make work, because a toddler is in more real danger from an older kid who is angry at them, thus it is harder for parents to stay out of it almost completely. Also, toddlers aren't that hot at co-operative play to start with and since they have less developed personalities and abilities, there's less of a payoff to them when they become friends and co-operate.

All through the hating, my youngest kid has adored her eldest sister. It has been heartbreaking but we are seeing our way clear of it.

I think you have the key idea down. There will be less-than-positive feelings toward the new baby, and they are okay to have. We have a 4 yr, 8 mo gap here and we've had no instances of violence toward the younger, though the younger has whacked big sis a few times and pulled her hair, both accidentally, when she was a baby, and on purpose, more recently when frustrated. Oldest takes it in stride very well. Any negative feelings she has had, she has directed them where they belong, at her parents. There have been a few "I wish it was like before sister came" and "I wish she was never born!" but she always instantly regrets it and it's always been she she has been very tired and at the end of her rope and wanting mama when mama was nursing little sister. We have always empathized with her "Yes, it's different now and it feels yucky sometimes. It's okay to be sad or mad about it being different."

We didn't mention possible conflict *every* time we talked about #2, but often enough that we felt he understood what to do if he got angry, sad, or frustrated.

We also bought the Mr. Rogers DVD about what to do with the mad that you feel, which was applicable to other relationships as well as that between siblings.

Things got more complicated when #2 became able to grab a toy #1 considered his, but there has never been a situation where one or the other couldn't be distracted by an alternate plaything.

And the time #1 bit #2? He didn't break the skin. :-)

Molly was very, very positive about the coming baby when I was pregnant with Kiera. And she was very, very sweet to her baby sister, despite the fact that the new arrival was colicky and difficult, and was eager to play with her once she hit the "able to play" stage.

Now they are almost eight and almost five (their birthdays are two days apart) and they are genuinely very close. They squabble a LOT and this sometimes drives me really crazy, and they share a room so unlike my own mother, I can't just say GO TO YOUR ROOMS to deal with the squabbling. They play together, they willingly share nearly all their toys, and they hate it when their sister misses out on something fun. (Kiera got to go to Disney Princesses on Ice about two years ago without her sister. I had a bargain deal on tickets to the 10 a.m. show; Molly was in school. Kiera still talks about how she wants to go and take Molly this time. Molly, for her part, got to go backpacking with Ed last summer. She missed her sister so much she called on the cell phone to talk to Kiera and assure Kiera that she'd be back tomorrow. And then she talked up backpacking until Kiera agreed to go along this year, even though she'll have to carry her sleeping bag.)

So sibling relationships really can be awesome. Honestly.

Also, not that I'm ADVOCATING this strategy, but ... when I was pregnant with Kiera I deliberately avoided "preparing for sibling" books that emphasized in too much detail how the older sibling might sometimes hate the new arrival. I figured we would deal with rivalry as it came up and avoid as much as possible communicating that we EXPECTED her to be bitter and resentful.

One thing I forgot to mention in the first post: Molly and Kiera both nag me regularly to have another baby. They'd really like another sister. They'd settle for a brother. But another baby would be really cool, as far as they're concerned.

when I was pregnant with Kiera I deliberately avoided "preparing for sibling" books that emphasized in too much detail how the older sibling might sometimes hate the new arrival. I figured we would deal with rivalry as it came up and avoid as much as possible communicating that we EXPECTED her to be bitter and resentful.

You know, I've wondered about that, especially after reading that sibling rivalry/older sibling jealousy is not considered a given in all cultures. But sibling prep books do seem to routinely introduce the idea of hating the baby, thinking parents don't love the older sibling any more, etc. I don't want to introduce those ideas if she may not necessarily feel them, or present them as normative.

Are there any books you would recommend?

Molly really loved two books I thought were kind of lame: What To Expect When the New Baby Comes Home and the Dr. Sears new baby book -- What Baby Needs. (Which lectures the preschool set on the importance of breastfeeding and cosleeping -- this made me snicker -- but Molly had at that point moved out of my bed about a year earlier, and had weaned while I was pregnant.) She had me check them both out from the library over and over again. I may have occasionally paraphrased or skipped over parts.

She was so fascinated by fetal development that I bought A Child Is Born, which has gorgeous full-color photos from zygote through crowning. I paraphrased when reading that just because it was long.

Of the children's story books about a new sibling's arrival, the ones we particularly liked were A Baby Sister for Frances and Noisy Nory. One of the things that occurs to me in retrospect is that while both Nora and Frances experience some jealousy and resentment, most of the hostility is directed towards the parents rather than the sibling. The baby is always viewed in a neutral or positive way, it's just those lame, annoying parents who fail to feed the baby AND buy raisins, darn them.

Noisy Nora, not Nory. Whoops.

Also, either the what to expect book or the what baby needs book has a chapter about "playing" with a new baby which suggests that you can play with a new baby by letting the baby grab your finger. That was a surprisingly helpful bit of advice, as Molly was eager to play with her sister and gripping a finger is one way that a newborn can actually interact.

Oh and finally, I think a certain amount of sibling rivalry is temperament-based. Molly was a fairly laid-back child with a positive disposition who adapted readily to changes in routine, and who loved new things. Temperament is largely inborn (I learned about temperament in this parenting education class I took when Molly was a toddler -- I have an essay about it here).

A child who has trouble with changes in routine and who doesn't like new things is going to have a much harder time adapting to a new baby. So while it's tempting to pat myself on the back for the close and positive relationship my daughters have (when they're not screaming at each other) I try not to give myself too much credit. In terms of temperament, nearly all of Molly's inborn traits are on the easier end of the spectrum to deal with.

My two are 26 months apart, older boy, younger girl. We did a lot of brainwashing when Colin was turning 2 and I was pregnant; I remember there was a Sesame Street tape about preparing for a new baby that was AWESOME - Col watched it over and over.

Kate was a high-needs baby; colic, nursing problems, some medical issues. She arrived at the end of April, and after the parents/parents-in-law had gone, and I was alone, things looked pretty dicey. Colin would be downstairs on a gorgeous spring day, banging on the door, yelling "Mummy! Out! Want to go out!" and Kate and I would be upstairs and she would be screaming and spitting out my nipple and furious and I would be in tears.

The solution: I used all my maternity Employment Insurance dole to hire for the summer the lovely young university student who'd been Colin's part-time babysitter, We used to all go off to the beach, and Kate and I would sit under a tree and Kate would yell at me, and Colin and R would build sandcastles and run in and out of the waves.

It gave me a *huge* amount of faith in the concept of a Mother's Helper.

I swear Colin never, ever resented Kate, because her arrival meant he got even more concentrated R time, whom he adored.

My two are 16 and 14 now. They've certainly had their share of squabbles, but they are very tight, they have each other's backs, and they got off on the right foot with each other.

Now obviously Alex is older, but the same principle might apply, for at least a couple of afternoons a week ... if there's someone whose undivided attention might be had, just to be an Alex Person.

I am fully aware that Michael and I don't come off very well when our poor innocent lamb describes our primary parenting role as "getting angry."

I thought she was saying, "That's your department," not, "All you do is get angry." I imagine that she has gotten angry at some time in the past, but she doesn't think of it as part of her job description.

It would be snide and vicious if I detailed how my relationship with my "older/only" was so negatively impacted by the arrival of my daughter that we didn't have any more, but then I'd have to explain that my husband apparently has the maturity of a CHILD, so I would just expand on that.

Instead, I'll point out that when my sister was born, I was 4y9m, and I loved her a LOT, and I really liked playing with her, and I would try teaching her phonics when she was like 2. Later on when more of her own personality developed, it got a little more complicated, but at least for us, the first couple years were swell. And since somewhere in our college period, we've gotten much closer (Yeah. She graduated first. Go figure.) So there's that. I do think there's a mysterious combination of the kid's personality plus the kid's age/maturity that can give a really good fit for the next kid, but there's no way to be sure about it until the kid is there, in the house, spitting up and crying at night. OTOH, a friend of mine had her daughter when her son was about four, and for the first six months after the girl was born, he barely acknowledged her AT ALL. Bordered on creepy.

I think that talking with Alex is going to give her fine prep for being the fabulous big sister she will be. Oh, and let her know to wait until a little past 2 for the phonics. :^)

My mom says I was very determinedly trying to teach my younger siblings to read when they were two. It worked better when I was seven myself rather than four, as I was with the first younger sibling.

We currently have 2 daughters, 2 1/1 years apart, and a third on the way. My two are currently 4 and 22 months. We prepared LB for Vi's arrival by talking a lot about how new babies need lots of attention, and that for a while the only things they could do were pee, poo, nurse, cry and wiggle. LB was very interested in having someone to play with, so we were trying to hear off any disappointment in that regard.

We also talked about how we would need her help fetching diapers, and wipes and whatnot. We taught her how she would be able to sit and hold the new baby (sitting crosslegged on the ground with her arms along her legs). And we let her hold "her" baby that first day after she was born in the hospital.

In general, LB was very excited and positive during the pregnancy. The first month was a little dicey, with my husband and I being short of sleep and Vi nursing all of the time. All of our relatives were a great help making sure LB got their attention during this process. And I would make a point of letting LB snuggle while Vi nursed whenever LB wanted to, and this seemed to help.

Now, the girls share a room and play together quite a bit. They share toys fairly well, and Vi adores her older sister and will trail after her like a puppy dog sometimes. LB loves playing with someone who is generally willing to be bossed around and lets LB take the lead in playing.

Now we're working on preparing them for the next arrival. LB understands we're going to have another baby, and we're reminding her how new babies behave. We haven't made a point of really telling Vi yet, as it's still early in the pregnancy, and I'm not sure she'd understand.

I am not a parent, but, growing up, my sister (five years younger than me) and I were pretty close. I loved her from the second I met her. My attitude, as I remember it, was pretty close to Alex's.

Of COURSE we fought. A LOT. And we were constantly in competition. But we perceived our competition as trying to make each other BETTER. We would constantly hide behind doors and jump out at each other -- in order to train each other to deal with startle-reactions better.

I honestly can't remember ever feeling jealous of her. Angry at her for destroying my stuff, sure. And we roughhoused a lot ("Mommy! Ian hurted my fist with his stomach!" -- actual, genuine quote from my little sister before she'd learned how to throw punches well. "Mommy! Ian hurted my foot with his shin!" -- actual, genuine quote from my little sister, after I'd smashed her foot with my shin, knowing that she'd go to Mom saying "Mommy! Ian hurted my foot with his shin," and get in trouble.)

The thing is -- even back then, I remember feeling proud of her when she won fights or contests with me, and her feeling proud of me when I won.

I think what my parents did was pretty close to what you're doing -- keeping me informed as to the progress of the pregnancy, letting me know that they would always love me, even when they were spending time with her.

Oh -- but the real thing was . . . Leila and I just managed to click as people. I mean, you throw two people together, and they're either going to like each other, feel neutrally toward each other, or feel negatively toward each other. If those to people are siblings, they can, eventually, have enough shared experiences to get along well enough . . . but, y'know, if my wife and her brother were together for six hours, they'd run out of things to talk about after about an hour and a half. They just don't have anything in common other than blood relationship.

They admire each other's strengths, and care about each other, and will walk through fire for each other, but, if they weren't related, they'd never spend time together. They LOVE each other, and they don't dislike each other, but they don't really have enough in common to LIKE each other.

Which actually kept the sibling rivalry down to a minimum when they were kids -- they weren't interested enough in the same things to end up in conflict with one another.

My sister and I, however, WOULD hang out together, even if we weren't related. We were CONSTANTLY in contact, and constantly in conflict, but we LIKED being in conflict with each other.

My older son was 2 and a half when his younger brother was born. He knew we were going to have a baby; we never talked about "impact." He and his Dad and grandmother picked me up at the hospital and he was glad to see there really was a baby. We did give him a new toy after we all arrived home.

I NEVER saw even the tiniest bit of jealousy. It seemed to me that the older one was quite comforted by the fact that we accepted this new addition and cared for him. (I'm sure it didn't occur to him that we had any choice in the matter.) He also immediately toilet-trained himself after the first time he watched me change a poopy diaper.

They got along great until the older one was 7 or so.

Linnea was keen on Emer before she was born.

I phoned her after the operation; she said with glee "Hi! You have a baby Ema dere! The lady cut him out of your tummy wiv a knife!"

She came to visit us within hours of the birth. She ran to the cot by my bed saying "WHERE is my baby bruvva? I NEED him!"

When we were all home together in the early days, Linnea and I both found it hard to adjust to the new division of priorities. It was hard on both of us. And on Emer. Linnea was 2y3m and still couldn't quite understand deferred gratification every time. The hardest times were still when I was dealing with Linnea and Emer needed me; I felt really, really torn when I was up to my elbows in Linnea's urgent needs (usually biological) and Emer cried for me.

Today Linnea helped Emer into a lurid orange pumpkin costume and put her hat on, and fastened the velcro tenderly under her chin, while Emer stood quietly and trustingly waiting for it. Emer never accepts anything without asking for one for Yaya too - and she always takes it to Linnea, never, eg, gets two sweets and eats both. Linnea shares her lunch with Emer without my or Emer's asking her to - if Linnea's lunch arrives first she *assumes* it's for sharing and just cuts it up with her knife and hands it over.

I definitely saw frustration with my delays but it never, as far as I could tell, got directed at Emer. Other things did - power, for example, or direct frustration, but not jealousy of my time or affections.

I think that for a toddler like Linnea was, tandem feeding really helped, but for an older child, having an accepting attitude and overtly loving, attentive parents is all that's needed.

But I'm also feeling all melty with the sibling love after watching them together the past three days since Emer's birthday; Linnea has been loving making Emer special treats and taking special birthday care of her.

When I was young and my parents taught childbirth classes with a local ob/gyn practice, I remember helping my mom with the "sibling classes" they taught for soon-to-be big-siblings -- they would have different children talk about what it was like to be a big brother/sister, let kids ask questions about what it's like to be one, and then they'd give a tour of the maternity floor at one of the hospitals that the practice used and talk about what happens during a birth in general terms, and then the kids would work on making a gift for their siblings -- usually it was a sock doll or some simple craft. I don't even know if they still do classes like that anymore, but it seemed to be a good experience.

I think the person teaching the class would also talk to the parents while the sibling class was taking the tour and talk about tips to make things easier -- the only one I remember was something like "have small toys or stickers or something available as a 'new' thing to bring out if people bring presents for the new baby, the big sibling doesn't feel like s/he is missing out on presents."

I'm going to recommend a little book. It's called 101 Things To Do With A Baby, and it features a small girl going through her regular day with a baby sibling (sister I think) who ... acts like a baby, and through the day they have some great interactions and some cranky ones. It's ALMOST a wordless book, so you can make up your own stories about some of the pictures. And so you can use to to let Alex project her own thoughts and feelings, and you can respond to them whatever they are.

I get the impression that Alex's expressive capabilities and her level of emotional understanding are on the high side, to put it mildly. So I'm guessing there's more danger of putting ideas into her head than of her not acknowledging her future emotions.

Holy cow! You're raising another lawyer like my eldest child!

Jackie was within days of turning two and I was making a caterpillar cake for her birthday--one super sized cupcake and a long tail of regular sized ones, frosted green and with various candy decorations to make it more caterpillar-like. I had just taken the cupcakes out of the oven and they needed to cool. I didn't want Jackie to get burned, so I told her not to touch the cupcakes while I went to get something from another room. When I come back in the kitchen, I see Jackie up on a chair with her face buried in the cupcakes. "Hey! Didn't I say not to touch those?" I squawked.

With her hands on her little hips she replied: "I'm not touching them, I'm licking them."

I had to leave the room and laugh silently until I could breathe again.

As for sibling rivalry, I don't think it's inevitable. Colin ADORES his baby brother Zachary. He's been curious and excited about being a big brother ever since we told him there was a baby coming. He's been the best big brother ever, too. He's gentle with the baby, he helps me take care of him, he tells me when the baby wakes up and I don't hear him, he comforts the baby, and he can make that baby laugh like nobody else. The boys are the complete opposite of the girls. Jackie did not care and was pretty much oblivious to everything baby-related while I was pregnant and she actively resented Shannon from the minute she was born. They still have friction, but they have one of those 'no one but me is allowed to be mean to my sister' types of relationships. They defend each other from the rest of the world.

I'm the eldest of three, and when my younger brothers came into the world I was mainly just glad of it.

(Not to stretch the metaphor too far, but I turned out to be poly, too.)

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Conversations with the big-sister-in-waiting.

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This probably is less cheerful than you wish to hear.

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