When do you speak?

[rivka]

As I have done several times before, at one point this weekend I bit my tongue and said nothing when one of my in-laws said something racist.

In this case, she was explaining that she'd purchased a second cemetery plot because there were too many blacks - and I can't even begin to convey the tone of voice in which she said the word "blacks;" it mingled scandal, contempt, disgust, and a revolting just-between-us intimacy, and I cannot think of any way that tone could be used to say something that wasn't shameful - at any rate, too many blacks at the cemetery where she already owns a plot. She went on to relate a story about how someone had once stolen artificial flowers from her husband's grave.

I wanted to say something sarcastic about posthumous segregation, and I wanted to say that I was pretty sure that a white person could steal flowers just as easily as a black person. I wanted to ask her how could go on to Mass feeling like a good Christian immediately after saying such ugly things - she was actually holding her rosary while she said them.

I had made a vow, however, to prioritize Michael's dying father's comfort and his ability to bond with his grandchild over everything else that happened that weekend. And I didn't think that any good could possibly come from confronting her with her ugly and shameful behavior. So I said nothing, and after my initial horrified and disgusted glance I kept my eyes averted.

I'm sure that the incident has left her memory without making a mark, but two days later I still feel dirty. I am feeling as though I went too far in the service of family harmony.

Do you always speak up? Does one have a duty as a human being to always speak up? When do you protest, and when are you silent?

Comments

[going-not-gone.livejournal.com]

I had made a vow, however, to prioritize Michael's dying father's comfort and his ability to bond with his grandchild over everything else that happened that weekend. And I didn't think that any good could possibly come from confronting her with her ugly and shameful behavior.

Good on you for keeping that vow. I think that this weekend was not the time for it. Also, sadly, I think she will give you plenty of similar opportunities to confront this behavior in the future.

I think if Alex was old enough to understand, speaking up would be more important. I think that you always have to weigh the other factors, including whether speaking up will actually make a bad situation worse. Sometimes it's worth it, other times not so much. Pick your battles.

But if MIL is going to be in your child's life as she grows up, you will eventually have to confront this issue. You may not be able to teach your MIL anything, but you can and will teach Alex an important lesson.

[curiousangel.livejournal.com]

I think she will give you plenty of similar opportunities to confront this behavior in the future.

Fortunately, that probably is not the case. She lives a thousand miles away, and seeing Dad's condition over the weekend has convinced me that barring a miracle of some kind, he's not going to last even another year. When that happens... Alex may eventually find herself in Memphis for her own reasons, and we may bring her along if we go back for something, but my stepmother is going to be completely and totally cut out of my life.

I do appreciate what she's done for my father, and I rather like her sons, and they've both married people I like even better, but she's just a poisonous harpy that I wouldn't give two snaps to go see. I expect the issue will come up with other people eventually, but I don't expect my stepmother to be a future problem.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I, to my shame, do not always speak up. But I also can swallow a lot for family harmony and, in the end, it was too hurtful to me to continue little things like being married.

But when I do speak up, I tend to make it questioning rather than accusatory -- a typical example is the tendency of my family members (New York Jewish) to look askance on anything German, where I'll call them on it but do so more in a "why do you think that conditions from 60 years ago hold today" kind of way. And I likely wouldn't have done it in such a way as to cause discomfort to a dying man.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

And, BTW, may I point people to this entry?

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Do you always speak up?

No. It's part of that old "Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig," thing.

Does one have a duty as a human being to always speak up?

I don't think so. Speaking up when the people on the receiving end have a chance of hearing what you're saying is one thing. But there's no point in transmitting when the receiver is turned off.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Yeah, not teaching the pig to sing was hard for me to learn. Harder, perhaps, was being willing to offend said pigs by talking past them when they responded to someone else.

Which relates to the second: lots of public comment (and social gatherings are semi-public) has to be weighed against hope of gain. I do a lot of my public comment with the intent of persuading the audience.

If the audience isn't suadable, I can keep quiet.

But I still feel dirty when I do.

TK

[therealjae.livejournal.com]

I think you know my answer to this, but for the benefit of other people reading: I always speak up. Over the years I've gotten better about making my point in a way that the person hearing it is most likely to respond to, and altering the tone I use to speak up depending on the message I want to get across. But I couldn't imagine not speaking up at all.

I know that some people think I don't always make the right decision on this, but I wouldn't be me if I didn't. I strongly value well-argued opinions, and don't think much of traditional forms of politeness.

-J

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I really admire you. I would like to be closer to where you are on this issue than where I am now.

It wasn't about traditional politeness, it was about trying to avoid a fight. I think I do have a tendency, at least in face-to-face settings, to let too many things go in the name of not making waves. But the more I think about that incident, the more I wish I had said something. Would it have "accomplished" anything? Well, if nothing else, it would have made it clear that I don't agree with her. By not saying anything, I feel complicit.

[nex0s.livejournal.com]

i usually don't get into a confrontation about it, but i do say things like, "that kind of talk and that kind of attitude make me feel very uncomfortable. in the interests of family harmony, i'd really appreciate it if you could find somethign else to speak on."

you'd be surprised how many white family members say things like "those people" (meaning blacks) in front of me, because i'm not "them", i'm "one of us". (rolls eyes)

n.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

you'd be surprised how many white family members say things like "those people" (meaning blacks) in front of me, because i'm not "them", i'm "one of us". (rolls eyes)

Oh my God. That's revolting. I'm so sorry.

[fairoriana.livejournal.com]

I think that often you can't change the mind of the person who is making the statement. So often these beliefs are not even rational -- they're held on a deeper level and ingrained from childhood. The only reason you should speak up is if your daughter, for example, was listening and learning about the world from your grandmother. But I still might instead explain to Alex later why Mommy and Daddy feel differently than Grandma does, instead of making it a point of confrontation.

My grandmother is a "Focus on the Family" Christian (no really -- she's sent me more than one of the books). She is a kind, loving and giving person who happens to be in the thrall of the wacko conservatives. (I suspect she's not the only one out there.) This Thanksgiving I was careful not to have any of our "They're nutso and ruining the country" conversations in front of her. Why? Because I don't think we can change her mind, and I don't want to accuse her of being unloving because she's not. There are times when fighting it out might change a mind. And there are times when it will not. The trick is to pick the fights that can be won, and to love your family through the fights that can't be.

At least, that's how I'm dealing with similar issues.

[ratphooey.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure there's hope for anyone who puts artificial flowers on graves.

;-)

[rivka.livejournal.com]

The cemeteries in Memphis don't seem to allow real flowers.

[casperflea.livejournal.com]

I generally don't speak up, preferring to practice a more antique form of manners by cutting the person socially. If, for example, I were at a family gathering and seated next to someone who said something like that, I'd say in response, "Oh, excuse me, I need to X," and get up and go somewhere else. This works at work, too (family and work being the only circumstances under which I can see it being possible to have to tolerate people of such opinions instead of avoiding them altogether.) I have found that except in rare circumstances people who says such things are not going to listen to an explanation of their error - at best, they will claim to have been misunderstood, and at worst will wade even deeper into bigotry in self-defense. I feel I have fulfilled my moral obligation by making it clear that I am not going to be party to such a conversation.

[zencuppa.livejournal.com]

Do I speak? Depends.

If my son Nick, who (unike your little one) is old enough to understand, is in the room, most *definitely.* He needs to know that speaking your mind is *good* and that his parents do NOT agree with racism and prejudice.

I also silently vow (as you do) that I will not raise my children to think this way.

I understand not wanting to adversely affect the atmosphere, because Alex would pick-up on it (and of course, the adults would react in a variety of ways, most of which unfortunately would't be good for Alex).

Kudos for you .. "Pick your battles" is my motto in regards to this situation. There are many other ways that you fight ugly attitudes like this, and that is what's truly important.

[telerib.livejournal.com]

While I have trouble remembering specific incidents, I doubt that I always speak up. Sometimes it's fatigue - my grandma isn't changing her fifty year old opinions on MLK, Jr. We've had that conversation already. Sometimes it's shock - by the time I've realized, "She really did say that!" and thought of some proper response, the conversation has moved on, and I can't figure a way to address the issue without inflaming things further. And sometimes it's a matter of concern for this human right here overriding a concern for an abstract humanity.

You showed compassion for Michael's father, I think - and in a way that was difficult for you, because it meant compromising other values that you hold very dearly. From the way you phrased you vow, this wasn't about preserving harmony for its own sake, or simple politeness, as it was an expression of love for this particular man in this time, in this place, under these unhappy circumstances. You put his need to spend these holidays happily ahead of your need to fight for social justice.

FWIW, I don't think you were wrong to do so.

[jilesa.livejournal.com]

This is a struggle for me every time I'm with my biological relatives. I don't always speak up-- often because such comments stop my brain cold and I spend so much time kick-starting it again that the conversation has passed on to other topics by the time I can even think of anything to say. Like you, I feel besmirched afterward, and wonder if I'm doing myself or my family any good by letting such statements pass unchallenged.

The times I have said spoken up, I've found myself responding in a more bitter and condemnatory way than is productive. Calling someone on their bad behavior in a way that doesn't make them shut down entirely requires more tactfulness than I have. The best I've been able to manage is something to the effect of, "Those remarks make me very uncomfortable, so I think I need to remove myself from this conversation."

I always want to be more eloquent, tactful, and persuasive, though. I mean, some of my blood relatives are just knuckle-dragging cretins who won't be swayed from their prejudices, but some of them are otherwise sensitive and caring people who probably don't realize what they're doing. I'm just not sure how to distinguish between the two and how to talk to the ones who could be educated without alienating them.

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you had to deal with this, especially during a weekend that was already so stressful. It's an ongoing problem with my relatives, and I confess that my usual response is to avoid the racist (and sexist, and other bigoted) relatives as much as possible. If you continue to have an ongoing relationship with this bigot, you will have plenty of opportunities to confront her when you're not trying to cope with a sick baby and a dying father-in-law at the same time. You're a resourceful person who knows how to choose your battles wisely...you might even find an opportunity to confront her when it will have a chance to change her mind a little, in addition to relieving your feelings and setting a good example for Alex.

[redbird]

Not giving them your time and attention is a reasonable response. As is curiousangel's explanation that they're not planning to give his stepmother the time of day after his father dies.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

No, I don't always speak up. I do when I think it might make a difference, but I hold my tongue when other, equally important values come into play.

This has not always been the case, but as I grow older I find that no single value trumps the rest; social activism and justice sometimes take a back seat to simple human compassion.

exactly

[(Anonymous)]

I think it helps to focus on the positives of those you disagree with, and then find common ground, kindly redirecting or restating the negative as best you can.

Interrupt and distract as quickly as possible when the conversation begins to go to an ugly place...inquire about the location of the new cemetery, comment upon grandma's new pin, ask to see a photo of the deceased husband she speaks of, ask for help with the baby. Positive distraction almost always works, and it's worth it.

I try to remember that everyone is different. I am sure that things that I say or do, without even thinking, (based upon my own long-held beliefs) might be shocking or uncomfortable for those of another generation, or who have different religious, social, or political views than I do.

Even when Alex is old enough to understand, and is exposed to things that are disturbing to your own values, I would not feel the need to use confrontation in order to guide Alex. I think I would make a point to discuss with her privately why I didn't agree at all with the behavior or commentary, the possible reasons why grandma feels/speaks the way she does, why it is that you feel strongly the way you do, and how you and grandma can feel differently about things and still both be good people. In my experience, discussing and teaching are almost always more effective tools than confronting.

In the end, when all is said and done, people need to be tolerant of others. You will want Alex to be able to be compassionate towards those who are different...and sometimes, the difference to contend with isn't race. Sometimes it's bigotry. Sometimes it's right-wing politics. Sometimes it's machismo. Sometimes, it's ignorance.

[toadnae.livejournal.com]

My family is Focus on the Family Christian conservatives. Fortunately, they are also Minnesota-nice and have a deep and abiding horror of uncomfortable dialogue. I don't have children I need to model behavior for, so my usual response is simply to be uncomfortable, let that show in my face, and then develop a sudden need to visit the bathroom until the topic has changed. I agree with several others who have responded, in that picking your battles can be important. I'm not going to change my parents' minds, especially about anything touching on religion.

I think the key I have found is understanding that my family and I approach the world from profoundly different places. We aren't going to agree on many issues, including issues which are important to me. I had to make a decision: do I speak up every time and end up with no relationship with my family, or do I work to remove myself from conversations that make me uncomfortable and maintain a relationship with my family? For myself, I am not willing to abandon relations with my family. It's not easy, but for now, it's where I'm at.

[lietya.livejournal.com]

I would have bitten my tongue in that particular instance, too.

Generally, I speak up if it's someone I'm going to have to deal with a lot (if it's the great-uncle I'll never see again, I'll just scuttle out of that conversation as quickly as possible). I don't try to "argue," though, I just say something like "well, I wouldn't mind that" or "I'd rather not have that kind of conversation." I don't expect to change their minds, in other words, but I *do* have moderate success in getting them not to talk to ME that way. (Of course, that's because many of them think of me as "the touchy politically correct one who went to the Liberal College," but I can live with that if it means they only mutter behind my back instead of saying filthy "-ist" things to my face.)

When my grandmother used to mention every single visit that "BLACK PEOPLE bought [her mother's] house," I'd generally point out that they seemed to keep it quite nicely and that they were clearly good neighbors. Arguing with her that black people aren't evil wasn't getting me anywhere, but after a while she *did* start That Conversation and then add that at least they were "nice people." For someone born in the 1920s, that's progress.

[redbird]

That sounds like the "How about them $sports_team?" approach: a blatant changing of the subject that makes it clear that you'd rather not have that discussion. It's not limited to refusing to hear bigotry: it can also be used, say, but someone who found themselves with tickets to a play on a topic they found disturbing and would rather not discuss its themes.

[txanne.livejournal.com]

I'd just like to say that I'm very reassured to find that I'm not the only Designated Touchy Liberal Weirdo out there.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

I only try to educate/correct people if I think they're educable. Anybody over, say, 60 who is being racist has made a decision to continue being racist. It's not just her upbringing: she was confronted with evidence to the contrary and chose to ignore it.

I don't try to educate my grandmother, for instance; she's 97, and she's done all the changing she intends to do. This is not because she doesn't *need* changing, but because it's futile. I might as well be shouting at Mount Rushmore

In particular, I think your decision to prioritize your f-i-l's (possible) last Thanksgiving comfort over confronting evil was completely appropriate. There was no possible benefit and great possible loss.

[kiya]

I speak when I suspect it can do some good.

It doesn't need to be the person I'm speaking to that it's good for.

Sometimes just correcting the wrongness, making it clear that the behaviour is unacceptable, is sufficient good.

If there is some third party present who might be influenced or hurt by the wrongness, there is always sufficient good.

If it is something I have to deal with, up with which I will not hurt.

Often, if I evaluate it out such that I do not speak, or speak insufficient truth, I feel filthy afterwards. I still make the best decisions I can make at the time.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

i think, that should such a thing happen again in the future, that finding that you and alex (and possibly michael) might want to find something that needs doing right now, in the other room. or outside. or somewhere else.

i also think that nexos' suggestion is a great one.

i don't always call people on saying racist things; sometimes it seems like the outcome will not be worth it, and a lot of times, with the more blatant things, i get stuck in a "you said *what*? did i hear that wrong?" loop in my head.

[lcohen]

around a person who is ill, i probably wouldn't even consider confronting someone--the stress isn't going to help the ill person.

my former in-laws had a whole complement of stuff--the teasing me about eating ham for easter was always a highlight. these are people i love, mind you, but while michele was in the closet, it was difficult for me to find the place to stand while i brought stuff up if that forms a picture, even about groups to which i belonged. now i simply say that my ex father in law can't possibly expect me to agree with him and we get on with our lives.

in general i pick my moments. i had a huge fight with my former brother in law--the husband of a sister of ayana's--well i was diplomatic but tenacious. it was okay with ayana that i did that but i was terrified that it would upset her. so i don't always smile and nod even with family. i don't have a hard and fast rule--i just do what feels right in the moment and try not to kick myself, whatever happens.

i think you absolutely made the right choice--if alex were at an age of discernment, i think i would have still not said anything and then had a talk with alex, later. the stressing out of michael's father simply wouldn't have been worth the likely impact on his stepmother's sensibilities.

*many hugs*

[ororo.livejournal.com]

I am so sorry you and your family have to deal with such a person. Brava for letting things stay focused on Michael's dad and Alex.

I don't always speak up because of shock or because I can't think of how to say it in such a way that I will shock the bigot into shutting up. I do recall giving my mother hell once when the daughter of a friend of hers married a (and she dropped her voice to tell me this) black man. That was a case of knowing the audience and possibly being able to get the point across. Sometimes you just can't get it through people's heads that they are being offensive prats.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

I guess to me the real question is what is speaking up meant to accomplish? I have observed a few rare individuals who could disagree with objectionable speech in such a way as to keep the lines of communication open and get dialog and thought going, but they're rare and I am, alas, not usually one of those people. I think that, practically speaking, most times you speak up, all you do is put people's backs up. My own evil genius sometimes leads me to go ahead anyway, but I recognize that it's myself I'm indulging. If there's an audience that might be swayed, it's a different calculation. Beyond the pragmatic effect on others, I guess you need to calculate whether the value to you of denying complicity exceeds the other costs in the transaction.

I dunno if it helps, but I have come to the conclusion that there are some situations where right action is not available; at that point, the best you can do is chose the least wrong action. Those kinds of choices will always be subject to regret and second thought, but by the sound of it, you made the right choice for your own values.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

"When do you protest, and when are you silent?"

I think that just as there are white lies, there is what you describe. The social situation dictates, at least for the polite.

B

[jmhm.livejournal.com]

as Alex wasn't old enough to understand what Grandma said, I think you absolutely did the right thing, considering Michael's father.

And, you know, your duty to the specific humans who were making their peace at your table (and I'm not including strega nonna in that group) takes priority over calling her on her shit. She's a racist. Now the rest of the people in that cemetary don't have to lie with her. Good on them.

It takes a really... special... person to arrange for a spiteful gesture after death. This isn't about racism as it is the ability to say fuck you one last time. You deprived her of fertile ground for raising up a shitstorm right here in life which I'm quite sure she would have thoroughly enjoyed, so good on you.

You have plenty of less-charged time to explain to Alex that sometimes the people we love have mental problems. Everyone else at the table already did.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

Do you always speak up? Does one have a duty as a human being to always speak up? When do you protest, and when are you silent?

No, I don't always speak up. Duties (as a human being, ans a family member, etc) often conflict, in my opinion, such as in this story where your compassion for Michael's father and for Michael and your concern for ailing Alex were all in play.

When I do speak up, nowadays I almost always feel better aferwards. I'm not sure that necessarily means that I'm getting better at it; it may also be that I'm better at picking the situations where it's worth it.

I am more likely to speak up in situations where others look to me to monitor behaviour or atmosphere, as a teacher or a camp leader or coach. I am less likely to speak up when there is no audience, or where there is no audience who would believe me to be complicit. (The "horrified and disgusted glance" is often enough to establish that.)

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

The "horrified and disgusted glance" is often enough to establish that.)

That is a favourite option of mine, too.